KC-X ..... è proprio una telenovela .....

[richelieu]

La competizione KC-X, destinata a fornire all'USAF un nuovo aereo cisterna in sostituzione dei gloriosi, ma ormai obsoleti, KC-135, sta assumendo ormai aspetti veramente paradossali.
Dopo il clamoroso fallimento, lo scorso anno, dell'affare KC-45 e la presentazione di una nuova competizione, si sono registrati alcuni avvenimenti .....

1) il ritiro di Northrop Grumman
2) il dichiarato ritiro di EADS, che sostiene che il nuovo bando favorisca Boeing
3) la presentazione da parte di Boeing del KC-767 "NewGen"
4) la proposta dell'USAF di estendere i termini temporali per la presentazione delle proposte
5) EADS che, a questo punto, diventa possibilista

Ora il nuovo colpo di scena ....

..... l'intenzione di Ilyushin di presentare un'offerta per una versione cisterna dell'airliner Il-96 riportata ieri dal quotidiano statunitense "Wall Street Journal" .....

Tutto da ridere?

Preferisco non andare oltre ..... ma ..... date un'occhiata a questa discussione attualmente in corso nel forum (solitamente interessante) di "Key Publishing" .....

http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthre ... 96&t=98826

..... oppure a questa ..... condotta da Bill Sweetman sul blog "Ares" di "Aviation Week & Space Technology" .....

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/blogs/de ... d=blogDest

..... o, ancora, a questa ..... condotta da Stephen Trimble sul blog "The DEW Line" di "Flightglobal.com" .....

http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/the-d ... l#comments

.....

[anonymous12345]

Cavoli... sai che scena assurda, l'USAF che opera con le cisterne Ilyushin!!??

[richelieu]

Ma ora c'è una smentita .....

Russia’s United Aircraft Corp. isn’t planning to bid for the Pentagon’s $35 billion Air Force aerial-refueling tanker program, Chief Executive Officer Alexei Fyodorov said, contradicting U.S. media reports.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid= ... .nIk&pos=7

..... l'affare sta diventando sempre più interessante .....

[AlphaSierra]

mamma mia che telenovela!!! (e che schifo!!)

[Atr72]

USAF con gli Il.... l'ammissione sarebbe un momento di godimento estremo

eppoi sono Russi!

[richelieu]

Altra raffica di smentite .....

http://www.reuters.com/article/idCNLDE62L0AX20100322

..... che si succedono a ritmo accelerato ..... pochi minuti fa c'era lo "UPDATE 2" .....

[richelieu]

Intanto .....

..... EADS ci ripensa e la sua filiale nord-americana chiede una proroga .....

Fonte: AviationWeek.

EADS Now Eyes Prime Bid For USAF KC-X

By Amy Butler (Mar 22, 2010)


EADS North America officials have requested an extra 90 days to potentially assemble a prime bid for the U.S. Air Force’s KC-X aerial refueling tanker replacement contract, valued at up to $35 billion for 179 aircraft.

Pentagon officials are “seriously considering” the request, according to Geoff Morrell, Pentagon spokesman. “A reasonable extension, were it granted, would certainly be in keeping with past practice,” he said.

Only a week prior, EADS officials said they felt the company would be unable to take on a prime position for such a large contract. Northrop Grumman’s prowess as a “near-peerless” systems integrator was a strength in its joint bid with EADS for the tanker, but Northrop announced it was walking away from KC-X March 8 owing to excessive risk in the company’s chances of winning. “We’re developing all of those capabilities too,” said EADS North America chief executive Sean O’Keefe (Aerospace DAILY, March 11). “We do not have anything near that in place that would rival that capacity. We could not bring that to the equation alone.”

However, late March 18 at the Pentagon, the Defense Department’s chief spokesman told reporters it had received notification from EADS North America indicating possible interest in competing to replace the aging KC-135 tanker fleet. “And we would welcome that,” Geoff Morrell added. Furthermore, the Pentagon is open to a “reasonable extension” to the 75-day deadline for replies to its request for proposals.

It was after Morrell’s comments were released that EADS executives publicly signaled their interest.

In their statement March 19, EADS reiterated its long-standing objections to the structure of the competition, which they say favors Boeing’s smaller 767 proposal over the Airbus A330-based option. “While this is a positive sign that the DOD seeks competition, it does not address EADS’ underlying concerns that the [request for proposals] clearly favors a smaller, less capable aircraft, and that the additional combat capability offered by our system may not be fully valued,” according to an EADS statement.

Guy Hicks, a spokesman for the company, says there still has been no decision to bid.

What remains unclear is whether EADS, if it offers a prime bid, would be able to rely on existing supplier agreements made in the course of its work with Northrop Grumman as a team or if the company would need to forge new arrangements. This is especially key for specific U.S. items, such as communications and defensive systems. “We wouldn’t be starting from scratch on the tanker program. We’ve been working on this for six years,” one company official says. “We have a significant U.S.-based tanker” team. The company’s plan was to perform final assemble of tankers in Mobile, Ala.

On Capitol Hill, Boeing proponent Sen. Patty Murray (D-Wash.) slammed the Pentagon for even considering accommodating EADS with a new deadline. “The Air Force laid out clear requirements and timelines and Boeing and America’s workers are ready to work to meet them,” she said. “They shouldn’t cave to more games from a foreign competitor.”

[richelieu]

Ancora smentite ..... e contro-smentite .....

http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i=4549138

..... ma anche conferme ..... infatti lo studio dell'avvocato Kirkland avalla l'esistenza dei contatti con i Russi .....

http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i= ... =EUR&s=AIR

..... meglio che nei film di James Bond .....

[Atr72]

ma sti americani han rotto, scegliessero per il meglio (il russo, perchè eppoi è russo!)

[richelieu]

ma sti americani han rotto, scegliessero per il meglio (il russo, perchè eppoi è russo!)

Atr72 ..... sii serio .....
..... e leggi questo .....

DATE: 24/03/10
SOURCE: Flight International

USAF tanker contract draws only European interest, not Russian

By Stephen Trimble


The battle for the US Air Force's $35 billion tanker contract may continue despite Northrop Grumman's decision to withdraw, but the contest would involve only a European-based company and not an unlikely bid from Russia.

EADS North America confirmed on 18 March that it would consider submitting a bid after the Department of Defense offered to extend its 10 May deadline to submit responses to a request for proposals for the KC-X contract.

Russia's United Aircraft, however, denied reports that the firm was preparing to submit a bid based on a two-engined version of the Ilyushin Il-96 airliner, which has never been operated as a tanker. John Kirkland, a US lawyer claiming to front the Il-96 proposal, faced accusations that he publicised a hoax.

Meanwhile, EADS NA is discussing a deadline extension with DoD officials.

"We are engaged in active discussions with the company to better understand the reasons why they would need an extension, why they would want an extension," the Pentagon said on 23 March.

"Those conversations are going very well thus far, [but] we have not come to a conclusion and therefore have not made a decision yet about whether to extend the bidding period any further."

For its part, EADS has not decided whether to bid even if the deadline is extended.

Although the Pentagon is discussing the extension, EADS says that its "underlying concerns [are] that the RFP clearly favours a smaller, less-capable aircraft, and that the additional combat capability offered by our system may not be fully valued".

So far, the DoD has not wavered on the terms for the competitive evaluation. To qualify for the contract award, any bidder must meet 372 mandatory requirements, including the ability to offload as much fuel as the Boeing KC-135R does today.

The lowest-priced bidder would win the contract unless the evaluated proposals come within a 1% margin. That threshold would automatically trigger a second evaluation considering up to 94 additional requirements.

Both Northrop and EADS officials have complained since October 2009 that the revised KC-X evaluation process favours an aircraft smaller than its Airbus A330-200-based KC-45. Boeing has proposed a new version of the KC-767 called the NextGen Tanker.

The DoD, however, only tweaked elements of the fixed price contract strategy in response to the complaints. The contracting formula was adjusted so that taxpayers would shoulder more of the financial risk in the event of cost overruns caused by factors other than inflation.

[richelieu]

EADS ..... la decisione si avvicina ..... ma ci sono ancora troppi "se" .....

Fonte: AviationWeek.com

EADS Nears KC-X Decision

By Jens Flottau and Robert Wall (Mar 30, 2010)
FRANKFURT and LONDON


EADS plans to decide whether it will bid for the U.S. Air Force’s tanker within the next two weeks, Airbus CEO Thomas Enders told Aviation Week. But at this stage, Enders is “still skeptical” if EADS should go ahead with a bid.

Enders says that “we will not submit a dumping offer,” pointing out that the billion euros in cost overruns in the Airbus A400M program leaves the company less financial room to maneuver. But he hopes to negotiate a package with a U.S. defense electronics supplier that is more favorable than the Northrop Grumman proposal.

Views are split within EADS over the wisdom of moving forward given the wording of the current request for proposals (RFP). The Pentagon has held out the prospect of giving EADS more time to submit a bid, something EADS CEO Louis Gallois has indicated would be a prerequisite. However, the U.S. Defense Department has turned a cold shoulder to the idea of modifying the current RFP. EADS officials have been vague about whether an RFP change is required for them to consider making a prime contractor offer.

Northrop is said to have built significant profit margin into the former tanker offering because it was not core to its strategy and relatively small in terms of its overall volume. If EADS North America managed to negotiate a supplier deal significantly below that, it could very well have a chance to come close to the Boeing offer in terms of pricing, Enders says, making it difficult for the Pentagon to discount the EADS offer.

Boeing officials have said they are still preparing their proposal, including pricing data, assuming they will face competition.

One industry official suggests an EADS announcement could come this week. Enders did not disclose which U.S. supplier EADS is talking to about forming a teaming relationship. But industry sources say Raytheon or L3 Communications are much more likely options than Lockheed Martin; Lockheed Martin and EADS were in talks several years ago about teaming for the U.S. Navy maritime patrol program that led to the Boeing P-8A, but the trans-Atlantic discussions faltered before a bid was submitted. As EADS canvasses the U.S. marketplace, even BAE Systems North America is being named by industry officials as a potential partner. BAE Systems is already much further established in the U.S. than EADS.

A U.S. team member is seen as important to handle some of the systems integration needs associated with the tanker program. However, an industry official says that EADS could meet Buy America rules in terms of U.S. content on the A330-based offering even without an American partner.

Nota: Articolo già postato per errore nel thread "KC 767 AMI" .....

[richelieu]

Parla il CSM dell'USAF .....

Fonte: AviationWeek.com

Schwartz: KC-X Competition Benefits Taxpayers

By Amy Butler (Mar 31, 2010)


It would be in the interest of taxpayers to allow EADS North America an extension of the U.S. Air Force’s due date for KC-135 replacement bids if the company is serious about entering the competition, Chief of Staff Gen. Norton Schwartz says.

Pentagon officials say they are open to a 90-day extension to the May 10 proposal deadline, though EADS continues to weigh its options to enter the competition (Aerospace DAILY, March 30). The request for proposals was released in February and launched a competition to build 179 aerial refuelers expected to be worth about $35 billion.

“Is EADS serious? Are they really serious about putting together a proposal?” Schwartz said during a March 30 breakfast speech hosted by the Air Force Association. “I think that it is in the interest of taxpayers generally to promote competition, and a modest extension of the May 10 deadline would probably serve that purpose if there is another offeror that is really serious about making a proposal.”

EADS CEO Louis Gallois and his EADS North America counterpart, Sean O’Keefe, had initially said the bid would be too big for the company to spearhead on its own (Aerospace DAILY, March 11). But company officials apparently are expected to announce their plans within the next two weeks. EADS’ longtime U.S. partner, Northrop Grumman, backed out of the competition, citing too much risk for the company in winning a duel against Boeing.

EADS would offer an Airbus A330-based refueler, while Boeing is proposing a 767-based model.

A modest extension to the bidding deadline would not seriously “affect or degrade” the readiness of the existing KC-135 and KC-10 fleet, Schwartz adds.

[richelieu]

Parla anche Sarkozy ..... EADS non fa commenti ..... ma chiede una proroga .....

DATE: 01/04/10
SOURCE: Flight International

EADS: KC-X position unchanged after Sarkozy weighs in at White House

By Niall O’Keeffe


EADS has insisted that its position on bidding for the US Air Force's KC-X aerial refuelling tanker contract remains "unchanged", despite President Nicolas Sarkozy indicating that the company "will bid" after his US counterpart promised a fair competition.

The French president's comments came in the wake of talks with President Barack Obama on March 30. He spoke of his "trust" in Obama's promises of a "fair and transparent" tanker selection process.

EADS has declined to comment on the French president's remarks, but says that the company's position is that the US Department of Defense had yet to address EADS's concerns that the request for proposals "clearly favours a smaller, less capable aircraft" and that the "additional combat capability" offered by EADS's system "may not be fully valued".

EADS, bidding with Northrop Grumman, won the $35 billion KC-X contract in February 2008 and would have supplied 179 Airbus A330-based KC-45 tankers over the next two decades. But the award was overturned by the Government Accountability Office four months later following protests by Boeing, which had proposed a 767-based alternative.

The USAF attempted to rerun the contest this year, but Northrop decided the terms of the evaluation biased the competition in favour of the Boeing KC-767.

EADS chief executive Louis Gallois last month told investors the company has not ruled out an independent bid, but that it would be "impossible" to bid within the USAF's 10 May deadline.

The request for proposal's apparent bias toward Boeing raised complaints of protectionism in Europe. US politicians representing states that stood to gain from an EADS/Northrop win were also furious.

Senator Richard Shelby of Alabama - where assembly of the KC-45 was expected to create hundreds if not thousands of jobs and a new aerospace industry hub - has claimed that the new criteria were "structured to produce the best outcome for Boeing".

[richelieu]

Il Pentagono concede la proroga ..... e i senatori si azzuffano .....

Fonte: Ares
A Defense Technology Blog (AW&ST)

USAF KC-X Bid Deadline Extended 60 Days

Posted by Michael Bruno at 3/31/2010 4:21 PM CDT


The Pentagon will extend the deadline for bids for the USAF KC-X to July 9, another 60 days for industry to prepare proposals.

The move comes as EADS has leaked its interest in bidding for the beleaguered aerial refueling tanker program against Boeing.

“We consider 60 days to be reasonable in this case,” Pentagon spokesman Geoff Morrell just told reporters there. The Air Force will compress its bid evaluation period, so it can still award a contract this fall as planned.

Morrell said such an extension would not come without serious expectation of dueling bids. Separately, one industry consultant told Aviation Week this week that EADS officials were busy preparing a bid.


AvWeek's Amy Butler was at the Pentagon and will report more on the Aviation Week Intelligence Network Web site shortly.

Update 5:45 p.m. eastern:
Sen. Patty Murray (D-Wash.) is not amused, but Sen. Richard Shelby (R-Ala.) said it was right on.

"This is completely unacceptable," Murray said minutes after the press briefing ended. "This extension means that we are once again bending the rules for a company that has refused to play by them. Holding the door open to an illegally-subsidized foreign company is the wrong move for our men and women in uniform, our workers, and our economy."

Shelby praised the Pentagon. "A sole-sourced contract would have served only Boeing's interests," he said. "The presence of a competitor better serves the interest of our warfighters and American taxpayers. It is my hope that EADS will be able to offer a competitive bid, despite the fact that the RFP has been skewed toward Boeing from the beginning."

[richelieu]

Proroga si ..... ma stessa RPF .....

Fonte: Ares
A Defense Technology Blog (AW&ST)

Did Pentagon Strengthen 'No-Bid' KC-X Camp Inside EADS?

Posted by Robert Wall at 4/1/2010 3:58 AM CDT


When the Pentagon yesterday announced it would consider a 60 day extension to the KC-X tanker bid deadline if EADS expresses serious intent to bid, perhaps the most important point made by Pentagon spokesman Geoff Morrell was the following:

“No one should confuse our willingness to extend the bid deadline with willingness to change any of the plane's military requirements or the way bids will be evaluated.”

That makes the calculation for EADS whether to bid a lot harder. Not only has the Pentagon not given the company the 90 days it was hoping for, it also has dashed hopes the RFP would be changed. While the chances of that happening were slight all along, EADS clearly was hanging on to hope they might and had indicated they would be looking for some relief.

What’s more, when Northrop Grumman, EADS’s former partner on the KC-X program pulled out of the running, the European aerospace company supported the move and CEO Louis Gallois said ““we will not compete because the RFP is based on a smaller, less capable airplane.” In the aftermath, he has been a bit less clear about that point, though.

According to EADS officials, company executives are split on whether to bid on KC-X. Preparations are underway, but there are skeptics. It is hard to believe the shorter timeline offered by the Pentagon would be a material reason for EADS not to bid, but yesterday’s pronouncement may strengthen the hand of the “no-bid” camp.

[richelieu]

Ultime dalla telenovela ..... EADS fa fatica a trovare un socio .....

Fonte: AviationWeek.com

Still No Partner For EADS Tanker Bid

By Amy Butler (Apr 14, 2010 )


EADS North America’s plans to quickly secure a U.S.-based strategic partner for its prime contractor bid for the U.S. Air Force KC-135 replacement contract appear to be encountering significant headwind.

L-3 Communications has emerged as the front-runner. The company has robust work with the Pentagon and, in particular, is receiving accolades from the U.S. Air Force for its performance in delivering MC-12W Project Liberty intelligence collection aircraft on a tight schedule. The company would likely provide the ability for the team to install the sensitive defensive and communications systems onto the aircraft. However, multiple sources in industry suggest that L-3 has abruptly signaled waning interest in moving forward.

EADS officials said March 29 they would announce their plans for the KC-X bid within the next two weeks (which would have been by April 12). Yet, a company spokesman for the North America wing, Guy Hicks, says there has still been no decision on whether to bid. And he declined to discuss any talks with potential partners. Jennifer Barton, L-3 Communications spokeswoman, also would not discuss the status of negotiations.

Proposals are due by May 10. Pentagon officials have said they would allow for a 60-day extension if EADS signals a willingness to bid for the program, which is estimated to be worth $35 billion (Aerospace DAILY, April 2).

EADS North America had been the primary subcontractor for a proposal from Northrop Grumman to sell 179 A330-based tankers, but Northrop announced it was walking away from the deal in early March. Company CEO Wes Bush said the current request for proposals exposed the company to too much risk — both in winning (he said the RFP favored Boeing’s 767 proposal) and garnering revenue through the fixed-price contracting plan.

Dennis Muilenburg, president of Boeing Defense, Space and Security, says the Boeing 767 proposal will take advantage of the ability of Boeing Commercial Airplanes to build as much of the aircraft as possible on the production line. He said the production process would be modeled after the Navy P-8, which is largely built on the 737 production line. Muilenburg spoke to Aviation Week during an interview at the 26th National Space Symposium.

[richelieu]

EADS ha deciso ..... si presenta da sola ....

Fonte: Ares
A Defense Technology Blog (AW&ST)

EADS Plans Tanker Announcement ... Finally

Posted by Amy Butler at 4/20/2010 9:29 AM CDT


EADS North America is planning a major tanker announcement today at 2 p.m. The company is undoubtedly announcing it is entering the tanker competition ... finally.

But, L-3 Communications, who EADS had wooed as a U.S. partner that would handle the sensitive communications and defensive systems for the tanker bid, is not expected to attend. The company last week backed out of negotiations with EADS, leaving the Europeans without a major U.S. partner.

EADS has been on the prowl for a major U.S. partner for its tanker bid since former prime partner, Northrop Grumman, walked away from a five-year partnership last month. Northrop CEO Wes Bush said the U.S. Air Force’s request for proposals favored too heavily Boeing’s 767-based tanker proposal. He felt that the USAF request for proposals (RFP) did not fairly consider the attributes of the larger Airbus A330-based design.

Northrop Grumman/EADS won a KC-X competition in 2008. But the contract is in the midst of termination following a GAO bid protest launched by Boeing.

EADS has requested a 90-day extension from the Pentagon for bids. Pentagon officials agreed to allow a 60-day extension from the May 10 due date if EADS throws its hat in the ring.

This signals an unwillingness among EADS to pass by the major opportunity to secure a foot in the largest defense market on the globe. Also, its Airbus subsidiary is eager to get the chance to open up a U.S. final assembly facility for the tankers if the company wins the competition. This would be in Mobile, Ala., and would offer work for the company at less expensive rates than European plants. The Mobile facility would also be an option for future final assembly work in the commercial world -- such as the A350 and a future narrowbody aircraft.

Still, it is likely an uphill battle for the company to win the competition, which strongly relies upon cost as a discriminating factor for the source selection.

Boeing's 767-based tanker will require some nonrecurring engineering work to mate larger wings with a 767 fuselage as well as to install a 787 digital cockpit onto a largely analog aircraft.

DATE: 20/04/10
SOURCE: Flight International

EADS to offer KC-45 tanker to US Air Force as prime contractor

By Stephen Trimble


EADS North America has informed the Department of Defense the company will compete for the KC-X tanker deal as a prime contractor against Boeing.

The announcement by EADS NA Chairman Ralph Crosby on 20 February at the National Press Club comes six weeks after Northrop Grumman withdrew as prime contractor for the KC-45 over charges that the rules for the competitive evaluation were skewed in favour of Boeing.

But EADS decided that it would be "almost hypocritical" for the company to not submit a bid for the KC-45, which Crosby compared to Boeing's "paper" NewGen Tanker proposal based on the 767.

"When you got the best you got to offer it," Crosby says.

Both companies now have until 8 July to submit proposals. The USAF extended the previous 10 May deadline by about 60 days to accommodate EADS' bid.

EADS had reportedly discussed teaming arrangements with US-based primes such as L-3 Communications and Raytheon, but decided to submit a proposal on its own.

With former Senate Majority Leader Trent Lott appearing at the press conference, EADS also announced 10 industrial members on its team, including General Electric, AAR Cargo, Eaton, GKN, Goodrich, Hamilton Sundstrand, Honeywell, RTI, Vought and Cobham.

EADS still plans to set up a modification facility in Mobile, Alabama, to convert the A330-200 into a tanker-transport. The configuration will be "almost the same" as the A330 multi-role tanker transport, which is now modified in Spain for several international customers.

In effetti ..... non sembrano molto convinti .....
..... tanto è forte, negli States, il sentimento protezionistico .....

[Toeloop]

Beh, la notizia è uscita questa mattina negli update close captions di CNN. E' anche vero che il 330 tanker è una realtà, mentre il Boeing è ancora completamente sulla carta.. a meno che non vogliano utilizzare il 767-200 per il quale hanno già una discreta esperienza avendoli preparati per il Giappone e per l'Italia (anche se ancora non ne vediamo uno in linea noi).
La cosa che mi suona veramente strana è che Boeing voglia farlo sulla cellula del 767-400 che è la variante meno costruita della famiglia e non sulla ultracollaudata -300

[richelieu]

EADS andrà da sola ..... però .....

Fonte: AviationWeek.com

EADS Is Officially Prime On KC-X Bid

By Amy Butler (WASHINGTON)
Apr 20, 2010


After failing to secure a major U.S. prime contractor, EADS North America is leading a bid to build the U.S. Air Force KC-135 replacement. But company officials say they will continue to look for additional U.S. companies to join the team.

EADS has been in a rush to secure a possible U.S. prime or more major subcontractors since Northrop Grumman decided to break ties as the former prime on the program last month. Northrop Grumman CEO Wes Bush cited as reasons too much risk with the fixed-price contracting plan and a request for proposals (RFP) biased against the larger aircraft.

Bids are now due by July 9, a 60-day extension from the earlier May date. The Pentagon offered the extra time to encourage EADS to enter the competition. “The [Defense] Department welcomes the EADS announcement. We have consistently supported competition for the Air Force KC-X tanker replacement program,” says Geoff Morrell, press secretary for Defense Secretary Robert Gates. He adds that a competition is good for taxpayers.

Already, EADS officials boast they have more than 200 U.S. companies on their team. Many provide parts for the Airbus A330, the platform for the EADS tanker, as well as for Boeing’s 767 tanker. In addition, talks were ongoing with L-3 Communications and, possibly, Raytheon. L-3 backed out abruptly last week, although both companies decline to comment on why.

Sen. Jeff Sessions (R-Ala.) claims that Rep. Norm Dicks (D-Wash.), House Defense Appropriations subcommittee chairman, engaged in “political intimidation” to dissuade U.S. companies from joining the team. However, Dicks’s office did not comment, noting that the claim was “personal” in nature. Morrell, however, says that “any company that is interested and qualified to participate in this important program should do so.”

Having lost Northrop Grumman as a prime, however, EADS could be better postured to compete with Boeing on price, which is a major determining factor in the forthcoming source selection. Some suggest a prime contractor adds 10-15% on top of the cost of a proposal for management duties. Because the A330 is a larger aircraft, price will be a difficult point for the company.

However, EADS North America Chairman Ralph Crosby and CEO Sean O’Keefe say the strength of their proposal lies in the risk that has been brought down during the duration of the on-again, off-again KC-X contest. EADS is now conducting flight trials of the first two Multirole Tanker Transports (MRTT) for Australia, and five countries have selected the design as their tanker of choice. “Our aircraft exists. It is flying,” Crosby said during an April 20 press conference. “The Air Force shouldn’t be forced to buy an aircraft that only exists on paper.” Crosby is confident the fixed price proposed by EADS will be realistic based on the company’s experience thus far with the aircraft.

Boeing has released little detail on its 767-based design. The aircraft will likely include structurally enhanced, larger wings as well as a 787 digital cockpit and a new-design boom. However, a flying prototype does not exist. The challenge for Boeing will be to build enough margin in its price to avoid cost overruns that could make this an unprofitable program, but to also come in under EADS’ price tag.

The development and procurement estimate for the program is about $35 billion.

O’Keefe says the company is now in a much stronger position to be a prime contractor than when it signed the teaming agreement with Northrop Grumman for a previous KC-X competition. Northrop brought experience as a major U.S. defense prime and systems integrator to the team. Northrop/EADS won that contest, but the contract was terminated after a Boeing protest brought to light procurement missteps by the Air Force. “Today, it is a different case,” O’Keefe said, adding that the company as prime contractor on the UH-72A delivered its aircraft on time and on budget. “We do have systems integration capability.”

One thorny issue for EADS will be how to handle critics that brand the A330 tanker as a European product that could rob Americans of much-needed jobs. Although the company plans to eventually assemble the tankers and A330 freighters in a new Mobile, Ala., facility, Crosby said no decision has been made regarding how many aircraft must first come off the assembly line in Toulouse and the modification facility in Getafe, Spain. Making those facilities suitable to comply with International Traffic in Arms Regulations is a manageable task, he notes.

[richelieu]

Aggiornamenti .....

Nel suo ultimo numero il settimanale britannico "Flight International" ha pubblicato una serie di corposi articoli dedicati alla competizione KC-X .....

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/20 ... ocess.html

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/20 ... ecret.html

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/20 ... esign.html

(fonte: flightglobal.com)

[richelieu]

Come direbbe il nostro "Atr72" ..... eppoi son Russi .....

..... dopo l'offerta di Ilyushin di fine Marzo (vedasi prima parte di questa discussione), si fa avanti una nuova cordata ..... che offre tre modelli, due dei quali, a quanto pare, non esistono ancora .....

DATE: 02/07/10
SOURCE: Air Transport Intelligence news (flightglobal.com)

US company partners with Antonov in surprise KC-X bid

By Stephen Trimble


A new US company has entered the race for the US Air Force KC-X contract with a bid based on Ukrainian-built Antonov series airlifters.

A 1 July regulatory filing by the publicly-traded US Aerospace Inc. confirms the firm intends to bid in response to the USAF request for proposals for KC-X.

The filing document says US Aerospace will submit three models of Antonov aircraft - An-124-KC, An-122-KC and An-112-KC - before the KC-X bidding deadline on 9 July. The aircraft will be assembled in the US, but built in the Ukraine.

"We believe that we will be able to offer a superior aircraft at a significantly lower price than other potential bidders," the company says in the 8-K filing to the US Securities and Exchange Commission.

The US Aerospace/Antonov adds a dramatic new twist in the already heated competition between the Boeing KC-767 NewGen Tanker and EADS North America KC-45.

Antonov An-124 transports have been leased heavily by the USAF over the past decade to relieve demand on the strategic airlift fleet.

Little is known about the other two Antonov models listed by US Aerospace in the 8-K form. The An-122 is reportedly a two-engine version of the An-124. Meanwhile, an online Wikipedia entry on the An-12 turboprop cites a book reference to a concept for the An-112, which is described as a jet-powered, swept-wing variant of the Soviet Union's 1950s-era response to the Lockheed C-130.

The KC-X bid by US Aerospace is part of a broader strategic cooperation agreement signed with Antonov, according to the 8-K filing.

The agreement also includes bidding for other projects with Antonov aircraft to the Department of Defense, USAF and "licensed US defense contractors". The pact also covers the "sale of Antonov aircraft, products and services in the United States", the 8-K form says.

Antonov is responsible for design, construction and manufacture of aircraft under the agreement.

"We will be responsible for coordinating the bidding process, negotiating and contracting with customers, and coordinating with defense subcontractors for specialized systems," the filing document says.

A pensarci bene ..... Antonov è un'industria ucraina ..... non russa .....

[richelieu]

Su "Ares" ..... Amy Butler esprime scetticismo .....

Fonte: Ares
A Defense Technology Blog (AW&ST)

Antonov in USAF Colors ... View With Skepticism

Posted by Amy Butler at 7/2/2010 8:47 AM CDT


A California-based company called U.S. Aerospace has filed papers with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission to lead a bid of Ukrainian state-owned Antonov aircraft for the U.S. Air Force KC-135 replacement program, estimated to be worth up to $35 billion.

This would pit this odd couple against Boeing, with a 767, and EADS proposing the A330.

The papers were filed July 1, and the company says it anticipates proposing three aircraft, the AN-124-KC, AN-122-KC and a to-be-defined AN-112-KC. It says the company is shooting for a low price.It is unclear whether this means a single bid of multiple platforms, or three bids. Bids are said to take hundreds of millions of dollars to craft.

But, filing papers and crafting an RFP are totally separate things. More competition is better, but it is unclear how the company plans to provide a responsive RFP in such a short time. Bids are due July 9. One of the challenges in making a bid is complying with the IFARA operating scenarios, which take time and expertise to run. These are used to understand how well the aircraft will perform in various settings.

A call to the company was answered by a kindly gentleman who greeted with: "New Century," which refers to the company's remanufacturing business. He referred me to another number, and a receptionist mentioned that the office was empty due to the holiday, but gave me the name of the chief negotiator of the deal, one Chuck Arnold. I haven't yet heard back from him, but will update when I do.

The company also lists a primary aerostrucures business on its web site, and apparently has done work on the C-17 with Boeing (who is proposing a 767-based tanker for KC-X).

I'm skeptical this can be pulled off. We know nothing about what type of boom will be provided to handle the 5,000 GPM offload rate, who would handle sensitive defensive systems and how parts supply and logistics would be guaranteed. And, how would DoD even begin to rate past performance; it doesn't look like there is a record of major prime contract work here?

Il modello 8-K .....

http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/ ... 790_8k.htm

[richelieu]

Ne parla anche Stephen Trimble nel suo blog "The DEW Line" .....

http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/the-d ... and-a.html

..... e, riferendosi al fantomatico An-112, afferma .....

..... The third aircraft is the real mystery. It's designated the An-112 in the regulatory filing. The only reference I can find to such an aircraft is a Wikipedia entry for the An-12, but it's listed as a concept for a jet-powered, swept-wing variant! (Think of a C-130 that looks like a B-47 and you get the idea.) .....

..... e questo è quanto scrive Wikipedia .....

..... An-12R (Reaktivnny – jet boosted) :
A design project for a jet-powered An-12 with a radically-altered swept wing and tail and 25-tonne (55,153 lb) payload carried for 2,500 km (1,550miles), to have been powered by four Lotarev D-36 high-bypass turbofans. This unbuilt projected aircraft evolved into the Antonov An-112.[4] .....

..... e questa è la nota [4] dell'articolo di Wikipedia dedicato allo An-12 .....

..... Gordon,Yefim & Komissarov, Dmitry. Antonov An-12. Midland. Hinkley. 2007. ISBN(10) 1 85780 255 1 ISBN(13) 978 1 85780 255 9 .....

..... viene dunque segnalato un certo libro ..... che andrò a consultare .....

[Typhoon]

Bellissimo l'AN124!!!

Per quanto riguarda il KC su base 767...non ricordo dove ho visto qualche foto forse fatta proprio in Italia..

[richelieu]

..... viene dunque segnalato un certo libro ..... che andrò a consultare .....

L'ho consultato .....



..... e, alle pagine 58 e 59 .....

An-12R Military Transport.

This was a redesign so radical that the resulting aircraft was not an An-12 any more.

Designated An-12R (reaktivnyy - jet-powered), this project, completed in 1969, envisaged a transport powered by four 6,500-kgp (14,330-lbst) Lotarev D-36 high-bypass turbofans; the aircraft had swept wings and a swept T-tail.

The freight HOLD was fully pressurized, being 15 m (49 ft 2-35/64 in) long, 3.45 m (11 ft-53/64 in) wide and 2.5 m (8 ft 2-27/64) high.

The tail gunner's station was replaced by a remote-controlled cannon barbette.

With a 90 ton (198,410-lb) MTOW the An-12R was to carry a 25-ton (55,115-lb) payload over a distance of 2,500 km (1,550 miles).

The design maximum speed was 850 km/h (528 mph).

The An-12R was not built but the project evolved into the An-112 transport (the designation speaks for itself) which lies outside the scope of this book - and which, too, remains a 'paper aeroplane' as of the time of writing.

E questo è tutto .....



Perchè diavolo "hold" mi rimane stampato tutto maiuscolo quando l'ho digitato minuscolo .....

[richelieu]

A domanda ..... risponde .....

Chuck Arnold, consulente speciale per il consiglio di amministrazione di US Aerospace, la piccola azienda americana che intende presentare la proposta bomba di Antonov per la competizione KC-X, si è lasciato intervistare telefonicamente, di ritorno dall'Ucraina, da Stephen Trimble del Blog "The DEW Line" di "flightglobal.com" .....

http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/the-d ... .html#more

Da quanto afferma, si direbbe stiano facendo sul serio .....
..... si tratterà ora di vedere quanto verranno presi sul serio .....

[richelieu]

Avevano chiesto una proroga ..... il Pentagono ha detto di no (almeno per ora) .....

Fonte: Ares
A Defense Technology Blog (AW&ST)

No Deadline Extension for US/Ukraine KC-X Bid, Yet

Posted by Amy Butler at 7/8/2010 3:52 PM CDT

The Pentagon says -- at least for now -- it is sticking to its July 9, 2 p.m. deadline for competitors to submit bids for the U.S. Air Force's KC-135 replacement program.

U.S. Aerospace, a California-based company, and Ukraine state-owned Antonov, filed papers last week with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission announcing an intent to submit up to three bids with different aircraft models.

Pentagon spokeswoman Cheryl Irwin says the following: "The Department has received a request for information from US Aerospace concerning the Air Force KC-X tanker replacement program RFP. We have consistently supported competition for the tanker program. The Department is committed to conduct a fair, open and transparent acquisition process. We also believe that any company that is interested and qualified to participate in this important program should do so. The interests of our war fighters and the American taxpayers are best served through an active and broad competitive acquisition process."

EADS North America turned in its proposal for the KC-X competition July 8. Boeing expects to turn in its offer July 9.

[richelieu]

EADS ha consegnato la sua proposta .....
..... con un giorno di anticipo rispetto a Boeing ..... e si è servita di un P180 .....

http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/the-d ... o-cou.html



..... ben 17 raccoglitori per 8000 pagine .....

[richelieu]

Al tempo stesso .....
..... infuria la polemica sui finanziamenti statali .....

Fonte: Aviationweek.com

EADS KC-X Bid In, Tanker Rhetoric Heats Up

By Amy Butler (July 9, 2010)


EADS North America is confident its Airbus A330-200-based KC-X proposal will win the long-running U.S. Air Force competition, but Ralph Crosby, chairman of the company’s board, says some statements about the highly charged duel from supporters of its competitor, Boeing, amount to a “bunch of crap.”

The company is submitting an 8,819-page, 17-volume proposal to replace 179 KC-135 tankers; bids are due July 9. EADS’s design is based largely on the configuration in development for the Royal Australian Air Force. Boeing is proposing a 767-based option, but it is deviating from the design made for Japan and Italy, and no known prototype exists.

The Air Force is expected to announce a winner of the procurement, worth about $35 billion, on Nov. 12. Crosby and other EADS executives announced their proposal submission during a July 8 roundtable with reporters.

Leading up to the proposal submissions, both companies have been locked in a public volley of discourse. Boeing supporters argue that a World Trade Organization (WTO) finding that Airbus received illegal subsidies to develop its commercial aircraft should be taken into consideration in the source selection. Rep. Todd Tiahrt (R-Kan.) is among a group of lawmakers proposing legislation that would call for the Pentagon to penalize the EADS offering because of the subsidies. He says that a $5 million per airplane penalty should be added to the EADS proposal price.

Pentagon officials say WTO rules prevent them from inflicting penalties, and any suggestion to the contrary is “patently inaccurate,” according to Allan McArtor, chairman of Airbus Americas. “I’d like to think of another word for B.S.” He adds that the $5 billion figure cited by Tiahrt and other lawmakers for launch aid is a “mythical number.”

The WTO announced its dispute resolution panel will delay until September issuing its findings on the case of the European Union against the United States that alleges Boeing received unfair subsidies from Washington. McArtor said the delay decision “stinks like last week’s fish,” and questioned whether the U.S. Trade Representative pressured the WTO for the shift to allow Boeing’s debut of the 787 at this month’s Farnborough Air Show to occur unfettered by news of the case.

EADS is opening up a new KC-X program management operation in Mobile, Ala., on Monday, July 12, to handle discussions with the Air Force following proposal submission, says Sean O’Keefe, chief executive officer for EADS North America. “We intend to proceed starting now as if we are going to win,” he says. Mobile was selected as the stateside site for A330-200 tanker and freighter final assembly when the company won the last KC-X competition in 2008, that time under the leadership of then prime contractor Northrop Grumman. That win was nullified after a Boeing protest turned up procurement missteps by the U.S. Air Force, and Northrop Grumman walked away as prime for the bid this spring. EADS announced in April it would proceed with its own prime contractor proposal.

O’Keefe says the first three of four development aircraft for the KC-X program would be built in Toulouse, France, with military modifications done in Spain at an Airbus Military facility. The fourth development aircraft would roll off the A330 line in Toulouse but be modified with mission systems in Mobile. Company officials declined to say when the first aircraft fully assembled and modified in America would be delivered from the Mobile line.

Crosby says that the establishment of the facility in Mobile would be an “economic magnet” for local economies struggling after the effects of the BP Gulf of Mexico oil spill wiped out tourism dollars for the summer season.

This, however, is not a factor in the Air Force’s source selection process. Each bidder must meet 372 mandatory requirements to qualify, and the winner will be chosen largely on low price. Price will be a tough point for the team because the Airbus model is bigger and heavier than its Boeing rival. “I feel good about the intersection of value and price,” Crosby says.

California-based U.S. Aerospace has filed papers with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission that indicate it will lead as prime contractor bids offering three Antonov models for the competition. This, however, is being viewed by KC-X competitors with skepticism.

The Pentagon says it is sticking to its 2 p.m. July 9 deadline for competitors to submit their KC-X proposals, despite the potential U.S. Aerospace bid. “The Department has received a request for information from U.S. Aerospace concerning the Air Force KC-X tanker replacement program RFP,” Pentagon spokeswoman Cheryl Irwin says. “We have consistently supported competition for the tanker program. The Department is committed to conducting a fair, open and transparent acquisition process. We also believe that any company that is interested and qualified to participate in this important program should do so.”

Boeing plans to turn in its offer July 9.

[richelieu]

Offerte presentate .....
..... al Pentagono bocche cucite (o quasi) .....

Fonte: Ares
A Defense Technology Blog (AW&ST)

KC-X Bids In: And the Race Begins, Again

Posted by Amy Butler at 7/9/2010 12:45 PM CDT

Another year is halfway through, and another round of tanker bids is in. A winner is expected Nov. 12, though Air Force officials simply say Fall.

Don't expect much out of the Pentagon. It appears to be in lock down mode. Air Force spokeswoman Col. Debra Millett says the service will not even disclose how many bidders offer proposals. Clearly, the name of the game is protest avoidance.

Here's Millett's statement:

"The KC-X program is presently in the source selection process, and in order to protect the integrity and independence of this process, we are prohibited by the Federal Acquisition Regulation (FAR) from providing further detail.

However, the Department continues to be committed to a free, fair and open competitive process within the parameters of those rules and regulations. We expect a contract award sometime in the fall."


EADS North America turned in its 8,819 pg. proposal a day early on July 9. Company officials were clearly confident in their A330-200-based proposal, but didn't miss an opportunity to point out what they see as public rhetoric from rival, Boeing, which EADS North America Chairman Ralph Crosby calls "crap."

He and his colleagues also flatly rejected the notion that a recent WTO finding that Airbus accepted illegal subsidies in developing its commercial product line should have bearing on the KC-135 replacement program.

Boeing announced today it submitted its 8,000-pg bid as well. Still, its design remains shrouded in some mystery. Officials reiterate that the 767-based proposal will feature a 787 Dreamliner cockpit and an "advanced" KC-10 boom with an expanded flight envelope and fly-by-wire controls.

Each company must meet 372 mandatory requirements to compete; the winner will largely be determined by a price shootout. Adjustments to the price will be made to account for fuel burn, efficiency and facilities associated with each bid.

Meanwhile, the only wild card left is whether California-based US Aerospace will propose three Antonov models. The little-known company filed papers last week with the SEC indicating an intent to bid, but it is largely being met with skepticism.

Any company wishing to compete must meet a "financial viability" requirement that can be proven with documentation. It is unclear whether US Aerospace meets this, and company officials have not returned repeated calls and emails for comment.

.

[richelieu]

Stessa notizia .....
..... secondo "Flight International" .....

DATE: 09/07/10
SOURCE: Flight International

USAF receives three proposals for KC-X, but Antonov team admits concerns

By Stephen Trimble


The US Air Force has started the countdown to the KC-X contract award after having received three bids to build 179 tankers, including a last-minute offer from a California company selling Antonov aircraft.

The contest is likely to remain a face-off between the Boeing KC-767NewGen Tanker and the EADS North America KC-45, even though Antonov-bidder US Aerospace touted a possibly lower $29.5 billion price tag for its proposal.

The competition has been valued between $35 billion to $40 billion with Boeing and EADS in the race.

US Aerospace, which signed a security cooperation pact with Ukraine-based Antonov eight days ago, acknowledged it faces long-odds in a new filing with the US Securities and Exchange Commission.

The air force's evaluation team may decide that Antonov is an "unacceptable" subcontractor for a KC-X bid, US Aerospace. Other possible shortcomings in its bid include the possible lack of qualified teaming partners, an inability to handle classified information and "required teaming agreements have not been entered into", the company says in the regulatory filing.

USAF officials are expected to award the contract on in mid-November.

The competition has been the focus of a bitter political feud ever since EADS started pursuing the contract in 2002.

A four-year partnership with Northrop Grumman yielded a contract victory for the EADS team in February 2008, but the award was overturned on technical grounds by the Government Accountability Office.

In March, Northrop withdrew from the EADS team over concerns that the new terms of the competition tilt the evaluation in favour of Boeing's smaller aircraft. After initially agreeing with its former partner, EADS decided it should submit a bid anyway.

.

[richelieu]

US Aerospace mette le mani avanti .....

http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/the-d ... he-an.html

..... e spiega perchè NON vincerà la gara .....

[richelieu]

Mistero svelato .....

..... US Aerospace rivela finalmente (e in fretta e furia) l'elusivo An-112KC ..... che non è altro che una versione riveduta e corretta (nonchè "ampiamente" rimotorizzata) del velivolo da trasporto An-70 e che, per ora, esiste soltanto sulla carta .....

http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/the-d ... ealed.html

Viene fatto notare che, a pagina 8 della "brochure" di presentazione, appare una foto, risalente al 2001, del secondo prototipo dello An-70 dopo un rovinoso tentativo di decollo da una pista coperta di neve .....



..... cosa che non rappresenta di certo una pubblicità molto favorevole nei confronti dell'aereo stesso .....



..... ma, si sa, la fretta è una cattiva consigliera .....

[hiyoyo]

..dai "rich"....
come direbbero gli americani: "..cut the guys some slacks!..."
d'altronde, anche i "guys" avranno le loro "economic-policy" tipo le nostre...

come quando tanti anni fa rifiutammo di prendere gli F-16 (..ex-Torrejon, mi pare...che dovevano andare a Comiso..) per dar lavoro all'industria nostrana, che produsse l' AMX...!!..... - tra l'altro: costo di 1 AMX=costo di 2 F-16 + maintenance..... -

..oppure: acquisto dei nuovi SF-260EA (...il mitttico SF-260 si è rivoltato nella tomba..!... ) da Aermacchi, rispetto ai Pilatus per l'addestramento iniziale dell'AM - il nuovo SF è più spompato e meno manovrabile del vecchio, è più pesante e "goffo" aerodinamicamente ed ha mantenuto lo stesso motore del precedente...in più, "militarmente" parlando, andare a fare addestartivi o exchange in ambito europeo con la benzina AVIO è...un incubo!.....sorvolo sul fatto di quanto sarebbe stato meglio il Pilatus... -

...oppure: NON acquisto di C-17 (..o partecipazione al programma "share" per conto Nato con i medesimi velivoli) per acquistare i C-130J - ottimi aerei TATTICI, aerei cazzuti per fare la guerra in ambiente di guerra, appunto!..- con i quali stiamo facendo l'80% dell'attività in maniera STRATEGICA - trasporti a lungo raggio per rischeiramenti,ecc...- e li stiamo "spolmonando"...... tra l'altro, i C-17 (che vanno piu veloci, e caricano molto dippiù..) li avremmo potuti anche "noleggiare"....invece di noleggiare spesso gli Antonov....


insomma,penso che anche per il KC-X sarà..."all the world s a countru"!...-tutto il mondo è paese-... ...o no??!

[hiyoyo]

..era: "all the world is a country"....