Moderatore: Staff md80.it
E io che cosa ho detto sopra?richelieu ha scritto:Può anche darsi che la cavalleria accorra in loro soccorso ..... e chissà che non si chiami Alenia .....SuperMau ha scritto:Richelieu,richelieu ha scritto: First flight for the KC-46A is slated for 2015 with 18 aircraft delivered by 2017.
aggiungi sta' data al tuo calendario, va'.....
Scommessina? 10 birre contro 1 che non ce la fanno ??
E 5 contro 1 che se ce la fanno, qualche altro programma ne risentira' pesantemente..
Il "massacro" del 1965 .......... tipo il BAC TSR-2 sacrificato sull'altare delle scelte politiche .....
ci vogliono solo tre anni tra la dichiarazione di design e performance preliminare e finale per ogni singolo equipaggiamento coinvolto, poi lo stesso lavoro a livello di sistema....prima ancora rig test e flight test ...SuperMau ha scritto:E io che cosa ho detto sopra?richelieu ha scritto:Può anche darsi che la cavalleria accorra in loro soccorso ..... e chissà che non si chiami Alenia .....SuperMau ha scritto:Richelieu,richelieu ha scritto: First flight for the KC-46A is slated for 2015 with 18 aircraft delivered by 2017.
aggiungi sta' data al tuo calendario, va'.....
Scommessina? 10 birre contro 1 che non ce la fanno ??
E 5 contro 1 che se ce la fanno, qualche altro programma ne risentira' pesantemente..
DATE: 20/04/11
SOURCE: Flight International
EADS: Boeing’s “dumbed-down” KC-767 increases KC-Y prospects
By Stephen Trimble
EADS North America's top executive says recent disclosures by Boeing show the KC-767 was "dumbed-down" to win the US Air Force KC-X contract, potentially opening the door for KC-45 sales in the future.
Sean O'Keefe, EADS NA chief executive, declined in an interview to admonish Boeing for his competitor's recent acknowledgement that marketing materials advertising a KC-767 with fuel-saving winglets throughout the competition were false.
"I'm not going to pass judgement on anybody's marketing strategy or any competitor's veracity," O'Keefe said. "I wouldn't do that."
But the absence of winglets from the production configuration of the KC-767, which has been redesignated the KC-46A by the US Air Force, offer a clue about Boeing's winning strategy, O'Keefe says.
"You can do this by extension," O'Keefe says. "The only room for margin between the capacity of what you could do today [with the KC-767] and what [Boeing] is offering is to dumb-down the capabilities. As long as you don't go below the capabilities you're able to produce today, you're compliant. As every unfolding chapter is telling us, this is precisely how [Boeing] unfolded their strategy."
O'Keefe does not fault Boeing for removing the winglets or "dumbing-down" the KC-767 configuration to win the contract.
"[The Boeing KC-46A] really is going to be a KC-135 replacement," O'Keefe says. "There's no reason to be shocked by that. That's what [the air force] said they wanted and that's what they got delivered."
But EADS perceives an opportunity for a larger tanker in the USAF inventory.
"That now opens up the opportunity to say, 'What about [the requirement for delivering maximum] fuel at range and all these other things," O'Keefe says.
"That's a requirement that may or may not drive [the launch] of KC-Y, but it's certainly is a higher prospect today than it might have been before," O'Keefe says, adding, "and particularly as each chapter unfolds we start seeing more and more what the KC-46A is going to look like. My goodness, it looks more like a KC-135 than anything else -- again, just like the air force asked for. There is nothing under-handed about that at all. That's precisely what they said they wanted."
Boeing did not respond directly to O'Keefe's comments about dumbing-down the KC-767 proposal, but provided a statement calling the KC-46A "the most advanced tanker ever built" and featuring "amazing multi-role capabilities".
Inoltre ....AviationWeek.com
KC-46A Lacks Winglets Shown In Competition
Apr 7, 2011
By Amy Butler
As the Pentagon and Boeing begin to finally talk about the new KC-46A contract, one question is: where did the winglets go?
Until this week, Boeing widely distributed artist concepts of its NewGen Tanker, based on the 767, with prominent winglets, sparking discussion among onlookers about why they were needed and how much integration would cost.
One characteristic of the KC-46A in newly released images, however, is the conspicuous absence of the winglets. So, about six weeks after winning the $4.4 billion KC-X development contract, the design is now different than that proposed on the company’s website for months.
Boeing opted against revising its so-called NewGen tanker marketing materials in advance of the source selection despite having earlier determined that the winglets would not be needed after conducting design trade studies. “Based on the USAF refueling requirements, the missions were not of sufficient duration nor conducted at altitudes that optimize the benefits derived from winglets,” according to a company statement provided as a response to the winglets issue. “We felt comfortable showing winglets on the NewGen tanker because we were considering them through the trade study. Showing available technology and potential airplane configurations in marketing material is a normal practice in the industry.”
In short, Bill Barksdale, Boeing’s KC-46A spokesman, says the winglets did not “earn their way onto the airplane.” But, they apparently earned their way into concept art renderings and managed to stay there.
Barksdale declines to say when the design decision was made to opt for standard wings. Boeing’s tanker website still features images of the aircraft with winglets. “I don’t think we are ever going to talk about the timing of when we decided to take them off,” he explains.
Fonte: AW&STKC-46A Facts
Propulsion: 2 Pratt & Whitney PW4062 engines
Thrust: 62,000 lb. (sea-level, standard day)
Wingspan: 157 ft. 8 in.
Length: 165 ft. 6 in.
Height: 52 ft. 10 in.
MTOW: 415,000 lb.
Fuel capacity: 212,299 lb.
Maximum transfer fuel load: 207,672 lb.
Cargo capacity: 18 463L pallet positions, 65,000 lb.
Aircrew: 15 permanent aircrew seats, including standard aeromedical evacuation crew
Aeromedical Evacuation: 6 integral litters standard; 58 patients (24 litters/34 ambulatory) in patient support configuration
Passengers: 58 standard positions, up to 114 positions for contingencies
Source: U.S. Air Force
NOOOOO .... su questa NOOOOO .....SuperMau ha scritto:..... non mi fare sparare sulla croce rossa !! .....
FAS ha scritto:ci vogliono solo tre anni tra la dichiarazione di design e performance preliminare e finale per ogni singolo equipaggiamento coinvolto, poi lo stesso lavoro a livello di sistema....prima ancora rig test e flight test ...SuperMau ha scritto:E io che cosa ho detto sopra?richelieu ha scritto:Può anche darsi che la cavalleria accorra in loro soccorso ..... e chissà che non si chiami Alenia .....SuperMau ha scritto:Richelieu,richelieu ha scritto: First flight for the KC-46A is slated for 2015 with 18 aircraft delivered by 2017.
aggiungi sta' data al tuo calendario, va'.....
Scommessina? 10 birre contro 1 che non ce la fanno ??
E 5 contro 1 che se ce la fanno, qualche altro programma ne risentira' pesantemente..
é matematicamente impossibile.....
Fonte: AviationWeek.com
Schedule Is A Risk In KC-46A Work
By Amy Butler
WASHINGTON (Sept. 22, 2011)
After conducting an in-depth integrated baseline review (IBR) of Boeing’s plans to develop the KC-46A refueler, U.S. Air Force officials say the program is on schedule and cost.
However, the one area of elevated risk for the $4.9 billion program is whether the company can deliver 18 of the KC-135 replacements by August 2017, says Brig. Gen. Christopher Bogdan, the Air Force program executive officer overseeing the KC-46. “A vast, vast majority of everything we looked at in terms of cost, schedule and performance is low risk,” he told Aviation Week in a Sept. 21 interview during the annual Air Force Association conference here. “The only element of the entire process where there was some element of risk above low – and it is not high, just above low — is Boeing’s ability to get that work done by 2017.”
Bogdan notes that “there are a few things that may take longer” than articulated in the master schedule. “Some of the things we are watching are some of the phasing of the milestones to get to 2017. ... For every day that they go longer than the plan, it is time equals money — and that would be money out of their pocket, so there is a huge incentive for Boeing to deliver this product on time.”
His comments reference the scope of work and ability to execute the entire development, including flight test and certification, in the time allotted. Bogdan notes that he does not expect Boeing to experience the supply chain and parts-mating issues experienced in the 787 commercial airliner program.
Shay Assad, director of procurement and acquisition policy for the Office of the Secretary of Defense, says that to date the KC-46A program is on schedule and cost. Bogdan has made three progress payments to Boeing and is in the process of approving the fourth, he says. Federal regulations call for 80% of a contractor’s progress payments to be paid when received; the additional 20% is then paid when the work is complete.
Air Force Gen. Raymond Johns, who oversees Air Mobility Command, says that despite Boeing’s expectation of exceeding the target price for development and delivery of the first 18 aircraft, he expects the company to reduce that price and come in “at target cost,” which is $3.8 billion. The entire program was estimated at $4.5 billion, including profit and government cost; the government’s cost is now expected to be $4.9 billion, the ceiling for the contract. Assad notes that target profit on the contract is 12%. The government plans to pay 60% of the overrun up to the contract ceiling; likewise, Boeing and the government share in the financial benefits of early delivery or a cost underrun.
One product of the IBR is a master schedule, which outlines KC-46A milestones as well as progress by Boeing in developing the commercial 767-2C, the new aircraft that will be the baseline platform. The aircraft was a “catalogue” item, meaning it has been offered to customers but not yet developed. Thus the Air Force is the launch customer for it.
The 767-2C is based on the -200ER airframe and includes Boeing 787 digital displays, main deck cargo door and freighter equipment and auxiliary fuel tanks.
Bogdan says that roughly 60% of the cost of the 767-2C will be paid by the KC-46A development. Boeing officials plan eventually to offer the -2C to other customers, including commercial carriers interested in freighter options, or, potentially, other nations looking for an aerial refueler.
Boeing Commercial Airplanes and Defense Space and Security are working as an integrated team to develop the -2C and the KC-46A, Bogdan says. “They have blended commercial design practices and their defense design practices into building this aircraft,” Bogdan says. “What you will see in the first few years as we design the airplane and lead up to CDR [critical design review] is the best practices from Boeing [Commercial Airplanes] relative to designing the airplane, which Boeing Defense may not have used if this was a purely defense contract. But because half of Boeing’s team was Commercial, they are using those best practices.”
The FAA and the Air Force are also working to “streamline” the certification process so that tasks only need to be done once to certify for both authorities, Bogdan notes.
Another marriage to support this contract is taking place inside the Air Force. Johns, in his role as the requirements generator and future KC-46A fleet manager, is taking a more prominent role in monitoring the development program than operators have in the past. This is purposeful, he says, to ensure that work on the acquisition side continues to be in line with the requirements of the system. “I am going to continue to monitor the performance, the cost and the schedule,” Johns says.
Boeing plans to conduct a major review of the 767-2C configuration by the end of November, with a preliminary design view for the KC-46A in March. A critical design review of the KC-46A is slated for the summer of 2013 with a CDR of the -2C about four months prior, Bogdan says.
A proposito dei dubbi espressi da "FAS" e "SuperMau" .....
Top weapons tester says KC-46A schedule is unworkable
By: Stephen Trimble - Washington DC (12 hours ago)
Source:
The US Air Force's plan for testing and evaluating the Boeing KC-46A tanker is "not executable" and could overrun the schedule by at least eight months, the US military's top weapons tester said in a new report.
Michael Gilmore, director of the office of test and evaluation for the Department of Defense, sharply criticized the USAF's ability to certify the KC-46A for military operations by the end of Fiscal 2017.
USAF and Boeing officials were not immediately available to comment on Gilmore's report.
Gilmore rejects the USAF's apparent planning assumption that the KC-46A schedule can be more aggressive than most military aircraft programmes.
The USAF assumption is flawed even though the KC-46A is based on the 767-2C, a new derivative of the certified commercial airliner, Gilmore said.
Gilmore cited the US Navy's experience with the Boeing P-8A Poseidon, a submarine-hunting variant of the commercial 737-800 fuselage. Like other fixed-wing military transports, each aircraft in the P-8A test fleet averages fewer than 30 flight hours per month, Gilmore said. The USAF schedule however, schedule requires each KC-46A to average 42h per month during flight-testing.
The KC-46A also built in an "optimistic" re-fly rate of 15%, meaning the number of tests that have to be repeated due to unexpected results, Gilmore said. The P-8A refly rate is averaging 45%, he noted.
The USAF also allocated 750h to the operational test programme, but Gilmore estimates the minimum necessary to complete the schedule is 1,250h of flight tests.
If the KC-46A flight test programme achieves no worse than the P-8A's average, the schedule could be delayed a minimum of eight months, Gilmore wrote.
The USAF selected Boeing's proposal last year over an EADS North America bid. Boeing is expected to build 179 KC-46As to begin replacing the USAF's aging fleet of KC-135 tankers.
The KC-46A integrates a new refueling boom, wing-mounted refueling pods and a new cockpit system.
Ma, ricapitolando, quali sarebbero le differenze "esterne" (a livello di avionica e sistemi di missione suppongo saranno adattati alle richieste dell'USAF) rispetto ai "nostri" KC-767? Sono sempre dei 762, o no?Boeing’s decision to close its Wichita facility by the end of next year may be good for the company’s books, but a senior U.S. Air Force official says it adds risk to its ability to execute the KC-46A aerial refueling contract....
Fonte ....."We could buy more KC-46s or - make no mistake about it - if Boeing doesn't perform, we'll just start another competition" .....
"If they don't give us the 18 airplanes by August of 2017, I have the option to withhold payments [and] I have the option not to approve any of the further production options" .....
..... http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articl ... ys-370719/
http://www.airforce-magazine.com/Featur ... bonus.aspx
http://www.aviationweek.com/Article.asp ... 467256.xmlNot a Bonus Boeing
Boeing has amended the comments of its KC-46 program manager that the 767-2C—a redesigned 767-200ER that will form the basis of the Air Force's new KC-46A tanker—would be offered as a civil aircraft.
Maureen Dougherty "shouldn’t have given the impression this would be a commercial product," said Boeing spokesman Damien Mills on June 14, the day following Dougherty's comments to the Daily Report.
The Air Force is indeed paying to design and develop the 767-2C, but "there is only one customer" for the airplane, and that's the Air Force, said Mills.
Though the 767-2C design will be "added to the Boeing product book," there would be considerable work necessary to make it "part of our catalog" available to commercial customers, added Mills.
He said it would be "speculation" to assume the 2C represents the basis of a new and improved 767 product line.
Boeing also noted that while it will test-fly two 2C aircraft in order to obtain an amended type certification from the FAA, the company will have converted them to the full tanker configuration by the time they are officially delivered to the Air Force.
All four test airframes in the KC-46 program are destined to serve as operational aircraft.
—John A. Tirpak
http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articl ... ce-376640/The first parts - skin for the tail boom - have been produced, "so if someone tells you this is a paper plane, you can point at them and say, 'liar!'" says Thompson.
be', fin quando ci credono loro, a me va bene....aspettiamo e vediamo...MatteF88 ha scritto:http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articl ... ce-376640/The first parts - skin for the tail boom - have been produced, "so if someone tells you this is a paper plane, you can point at them and say, 'liar!'" says Thompson.
http://www.aviationweek.com/Article.asp ... 497199.xmlBoeing is exhausting its management reserve on the U.S. Air Force KC-46A aerial refueler program faster than expected, and the program management team is investigating the cause as it assembles a revised cost estimate for Congress, a senior Air Force official says.
Boeing officials say the accelerated burn rate is a result of expedited risk-reduction efforts on the program. “We have brought forward the allocation of management reserve largely in order to expedite risk mitigation opportunities, such as system integration laboratories,” says Boeing spokesman Damien Mills. “However, the total management reserve budget remains unchanged.”
Boeing won the fixed-price, incentive-fee contract 18 months ago after a protracted and contentious competition against EADS for the sale of 179 767-2C-based aerial tankers. Government auditors have previously estimated the cost for development completion to be $5.3 billion, over the government’s negotiated ceiling price of $4.9 billion (which includes the Pentagon’s share of a projected overrun of the contract ceiling).
These auditors had expected that Boeing would have to pay for up to $400 million worth of the development. The strategy assumes the company will begin making money once enough units are sold at sufficient rates during production. Thus, a management reserve burn rate poses a problem for Boeing, which would have to pay the bill, rather than the Pentagon, if these funds run out entirely and the program encounters a problem.
Foreign sales could help the company recover its losses sooner; Singapore is the first country to request information on the KC-46A for a potential buy, says Maj. Gen. J.T. Thompson. However, the country also is likely to consider the A330-based tanker being sold by Airbus Military.
Management reserve funding is used by program overseers to solve problems that typically crop up during development. The accelerated burn rate came to light in a recent schedule risk assessment on the program, this source says.
Despite this recent issue, Thompson says overall the team is “currently in a good place from a cost, schedule and tech performance standpoint” in designing the KC-46.
Boeing recently began operating the first of three major system integration laboratories (SILs) designed to support risk reduction for the development program one month early, Thompson told a group at the annual Air Force Assn. conference here this week. This SIL is designed to validate systems associated with the 767-2C commercial baseline platform. Two other SILs are expected soon — one for the military subsystems for the refueler and one integrated hardware-in-the-loop lab for pilots and remote refueling boom operators.
Meanwhile, Thompson says the post-contract award decision by Boeing to shut down its Wichita boom fabrication facility and shift the operations to the Everett, Wash., area “is a risk to the program, but something that we feel is manageable at this point.” The relocation should be complete in January, he says.
Meanwhile, in another sign of progress, program officials have already begun live-fire testing on some systems of the 767 airframe, Thompson says. Additionally, Spirit AeroSystems, a subcontractor to Boeing, has begun fabricating the first KC-46A boom.
Thompson warned that this progress and the “good deal” negotiated by the government on the contract would be wasted if the sequestration process takes effect in January; this process calls for across-the-board cuts to the defense budget if lawmakers do not agree to a federal debt reduction deal.
The KC-46A program would be particularly harmed if this process takes effect, Thompson says, because a failure of the government to fund the project to its fixed-price obligations would trigger a full contract renegotiation, potentially including major changes to terms and conditions.
“If I break that fixed-price contact, I stand the potential to lose out on some of the great things that we put in this vehicle,” Thompson says.
Boomtown .....
Boeing opened its KC-46 Boom Assembly Center at Boeing Field in Seattle on Oct. 16, announced the company. Assembly of the first boom for an Air Force KC-46A tanker is scheduled to commence this week at the facility, marking the shift to production from boom design activities, states the company's release.
http://boeing.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=2451
"We're pleased that this facility opened on schedule," said Maureen Dougherty, Boeing's KC-46 vice president and program manager.
"The KC-46A will feature a modernized fly-by-wire boom based on the proven system on the US Air Force's KC-10 tanker, which will give it advanced refueling capabilities, allowing it to refuel any fixed-wing receiver aircraft anytime and on any mission."
Maj. Gen. John Thompson .....
http://www.af.mil/information/bios/bio.asp?bioID=11885
..... the Air Force's tanker program executive officer and KC-46 program director, called the center's opening "a big day" for the KC-46 program and the Air Force.
"Boeing continues to make good progress toward delivering the KC-46 tanker on schedule," he said.
The first boom is slated to enter testing in the third quarter of 2013, states the release.
See also ..... http://www.airforce-magazine.com/DRArch ... Place.aspx
se se....consegnano il boom in time, mica l'intero aereo....richelieu ha scritto:BOOM .....
....."Boeing continues to make good progress toward delivering the KC-46 tanker on schedule," he said. .......
Molto gentile ..... ti ringrazio .....SuperMau ha scritto:... spetta domani che ti posto due fotine .....
..... francamente non saprei (forse un ..... eresia ..... Boeing 737 ?) ........ e qui ce ne sono altri 3...l'altro non sono riuscito a capire se e' un 310 o un Orion modificato....chiedo lumi a te che magari hai l'occhio piu' allenato ...
DIfatti, penso anche io che sia in 737 modificato in P3 Orion, so di sicuro che ne hanno gia' fatti in passato. Sulle prime avevo pensato al 767 ma mi sembrava un po' estrema come possibilita'....richelieu ha scritto:Ti ringrazio per le immagini ..... molto interessanti ..... quanto al quarto aereo (alludi a quello più piccolo ?) .....
..... francamente non saprei (forse un ..... eresia ..... Boeing 737 ?) .....
Si, corretto, perche' Getafe e' ancora primariamente un aeroporto militare...infatti mentre stavo parcheggiando sono stato "disturbato" da questo gioiellino....richelieu ha scritto: Una cosa che mi ha lasciato perplesso .....
Su "Google Earth" l' immagine dell' aeroporto di Getafe sembra essere parzialmente censurata ....
Vorrai forse dire Boeing P-8 "Poseideon" .....SuperMau ha scritto:Difatti, penso anche io che sia in 737 modificato in P3 Orion, so di sicuro che ne hanno gia' fatti in passato. Sulle prime avevo pensato al 767 ma mi sembrava un po' estrema come possibilita'....richelieu ha scritto:Ti ringrazio per le immagini ..... molto interessanti ..... quanto al quarto aereo (alludi a quello più piccolo ?) .....
..... francamente non saprei (forse un ..... eresia ..... Boeing 737 ?) .....
Fonte ..... http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articl ... nt-377845/Airbus Military explains cause of A330 boom detachment .....
Airbus Military has identified the cause of an in-flight refuelling boom detachment that affected an A330 multirole tanker transport early last month, and says the incident was the result of a unique set of test circumstances.
Twenty-one months into the program, Boeing plans to deliver the first 18 combat-ready KC-46s to replace KC-135s in mid-2017. In the meantime, the government estimates that Boeing will spend $400 million of its own money to design the tanker.
...
Already two of five SILs are up and running. The first, known as SIL 0, will be used to test the software designed for the 767-2C, the commercial aircraft configuration on which the KC-46 is based. This SIL began operations Sept. 12.
The -2C differs from the baseline 767-200ER with the addition of Boeing 787 cockpit displays, cargo door and floor, auxiliary fuel tanks and plumbing and wiring that will support the mission systems of the aircraft. It will roll off Boeing's Everett, Wash., 767 line and be shuttled to a finishing center here for installation of the military-specific hardware (including the boom and defensive systems).
In mid-November, Boeing officials conducted the first simulated 767-2C flight, using actual displays and flight controls in SIL 0, says Ann Berner, KC-46 mission control test and integration leader. It is only one of many tests to come, but it is an incremental step forward for the program, she notes.
Boeing has also made headway on its SIL 2 E Cab, a mock-up of a KC-46 cockpit that will be used for testing human factors for the crew. The -2C software will begin operation in the E Cab in April, says Paul Lambertson, who handles flight deck crew operations for test and evaluation.
The remaining SIL will be used to test KC-46-specific avionics and software. Boeing is also building a wet-fuels lab, which will include the aircraft's actual fuel system hardware (including a boom). A separate lab will demonstrate the covert lighting needed to support special-mission aircraft.
Meanwhile, boom assembly began here in October. Boeing plans to take a year or more to construct the first KC-46 boom, a fly-by-wire version of the KC-10 boom design, to allow overseers to perfect the fabrication process, says Rick Miller, boom assembly facility leader. This unit will eventually be used in the wet-fuels lab for testing late next year and will be a Boeing-owned asset. Modern manufacturing techniques to improve parts availability are being added to the line.
KC-46s will eventually be built at a rate of 12-15 per year.
The first 767-2C flight is planned for mid-2014, with the maiden KC-46 flight to follow in early 2015
...
