SuperJet 100 scomparso in Indonesia

[tenk79]

Scusate ma se è stato un CFIT contro una parete del genere non mi spiego questa frase tratta da Avherald:

The coordinator of the rescue operation said, that the aircraft appeared relatively intact from the air however has received substantial damage after leaving a trail away from the crater down the slope....

[sigmet]

E' normale che quando l'aereo è a terra il TAWS indichi sia FAULT che OFF?

http://gallery.me.com/sdolya#102194/201 ... olor=black

No. A meno che le loro SOP non prevedano di metterlo su OFF una volta a terra.Al momento non sappiamo pero' quale versione di TAWS fosse presente a bordo e se fosse stato caricato il data base per quella zona. Comunque in caso di terr U/S alcune funzioni del GPWS rimangono inalterate "TERR OFF inhibits only the Enhanced modes (Look-Ahead/Map)."
Mi stupiscono un po gli interruttori in alto a destra che se non sbaglio sono relativi al FBW. Interruttori simili li ho comprati per 2 dollari su ebay..

[tenk79]

Scusate ma se è stato un CFIT contro una parete del genere non mi spiego questa frase tratta da Avherald:

The coordinator of the rescue operation said, that the aircraft appeared relatively intact from the air however has received substantial damage after leaving a trail away from the crater down the slope....

Leggo solo ora gli aggiornamenti sulle dichiarazioni dei soccorritori.

[bigshot]

"Mount Salak is 2,211 meters/7254 feet high, nearby Mount Gede is 2,958 meters/9,705 feet high."

Resta il fatto che non vedo una sola ragione per mettersi a svolazzare a quote di 6000 piedi (ma all'impatto erano ben sotto anche quella) in una regione che "non è la tua abituale", fra vulcani e pareti scoscese.

L'angolo di competenza di strati con forte componente lavica è talmente elevato, da poter peraltro - a livello estremamente locale e non facilmente prevedibile - provocare deviazioni importanti dei venti eventualmente presenti in loco, anche secondo una direzione verticale.

su avherald dicono che erano stati autorizzati (cleared) a 6000ft dall'atc e che il punto del primo impatto è a 6250ft

sempre guardando le foto e la mappe su avherald io intendo che dopo aver sbattuto sul costone di cui sono state pubblicate le foto l'aereo abbia scavalcato la cresta e sia finito qualche metro più avanti e in basso...
Sbaglio a pensare quindi che avessero in quel momento un'attitudine molto cabrata per tentare di evitare all'ultimo il contatto?
Infatti se si nota nella foto si vede della vegetazione perfettamente integra qualche metro sotto.

[FAS]

Mi stupiscono un po gli interruttori in alto a destra che se non sbaglio sono relativi al FBW. Interruttori simili li ho comprati per 2 dollari su ebay..

è componentistica COTS (commercially available off the shelf); puó essere utilizzata per casi specifici su velivoli strumentati per test, basta una dichiarazione di performance sperimentale dei responsabili del disegno a livello equipaggiamento e sistema....comunque é compliant FAR

[MatteF88]

Un aggiornamento da avherald:

In the evening of May 10th Police reported a total of 1353 rescue personnel are currently working to reach the aircraft and evacuate the occupants of the aircraft, which has to happen on the ground with the use of ladders. Access to the crash site from the air is not possible. Four rescue teams have been formed, each of which needs about 7 hours to climb to the wreckage. The first team of 10 people has already reached the site and was near the wreckage, but has not yet entered the wreckage. A second team of 75 people is due to arrive any time, a third team of 225 people departed during the night to May 11th and a fourth team of 250 people is going to depart at 05:00L May 11th.

In the morning of May 11th a first team reached the top of the cliff and is now descending on ropes towards the crash site. First images shown on Indonesian TV suggest larger parts of the aircraft like the aircraft's tail at a terrace down the cliff.

On May 11th early afternoon Indonesia's President and rescuers announced in a press conference that 12 bodies have been discovered.

http://avherald.com/h?article=44f464f7&opt=0

Da una nuova immagine, nel link, si vede la deriva del superjet "quasi" intatta, si distingue per intero il grande simbolo della sukhoi su di essa..

[willy73]

http://avherald.com/h?article=44f464f7&opt=0

Indonesia's Ministry of Transport quoted the Director of Civil Aviation stating that the crew had requested to descend from 10,000 feet to 6,000 feet. Contact with the aircraft was lost between 14:21L and 14:33L (07:21Z to 07:33Z). The aircraft was later located on Mount Salak.

Ma questo vuol dire che quando i piloti hanno fatto la richiesta di scendere che - pare - fosse stata autorizzata dai controllori questi ultimi non sapevano dove fosse l'aereo?

[MatteF88]

The Sukhoi Superjet 100 aircraft that crashed in Indonesia on 9 May 2012 was in the air space above Bogor as it is an area that does not normally have much traffic.

The aircraft was given permission to operate in Indonesia as part of its promotional plans, Indonesia's director general of civil aviation Herry Bakti said in a statement.

Sukhoi then chose to fly in Bogor, a mountainous area south of Jakarta, he added.

"The choice of flying in the area of Bogor is often carried out considering the lack of flights in the airspace. There are no scheduled flights that pass through the region, only charter flights," said Bakti.

Revealing more information about the incident, Bakti said radar contact with the aircraft was lost at 14:33 local time, 12 minutes after take off from Jakarta's Halim Perdana Kusuma Airport.

Just before contact was lost, the pilot had also requested for permission from air traffic control (ATC) to descend from 10,000 feet (3,048 metres) to 6,000 feet.

Bakti did not say why the request was made or whether the ATC acceded to the request.

He confirmed that the area was "cloudy" during the incident, but said that there should not be any speculation on the possible cause of the crash before the National Transportation Safety Committee issues its investigation report.

Neither the flight data recorder nor the cockpit voice recorder have been recovered, says Indonesia's Search and Rescue Agency (Barsanas).

Bakti said that the authorities will not interfere with the planned purchase of the SSJ100 by Indonesian carriers, although local media reports suggest that this has been suspended pending the investigation into the crash.

Indonesia's Kartika Airlines has ordered 30 Superjets while Sky Aviation has orders for 12.

The aircraft, with the serial number 95004 and tail number 97004, was on an Asian demonstration tour when the incident happened on 9 May.

Radar contact with the aircraft was lost shortly after and search helicopters located the wreckage of the aircraft on Mount Salak, about 5,797ft above sea level, more than 17 hours later.

Alenia and Sukhoi joint venture Superjet International confirmed that the aircraft had completed a full pre-flight check and reported no technical issues before taking off. The aircraft also did not report any failure before disappearing from radar contact.

Updated data from Sukhoi shows that there were 45 people on board the crashed aircraft. They include journalists, pilots and engineers from Sukhoi and officials from various Indonesian carriers.

"At this time, all our resources are devoted in assisting the authorities with the investigations, aimed at determining the cause of the accident," Sukhoi Civil Aircraft said in a statement on its website.

Fonte: http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articl ... ightglobal

[paox]

Vi segnalo due articoli dalla stampa russa (in inglese).

Il primo analizza ipotesi di HF.
http://rbth.ru/articles/2012/05/10/sukh ... 15608.html

Il secondo ha una foto che illustra le operazioni di ricerca in atto (e descrive l'episodio imbarazzante di una hostess di Aeroflot):
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/arti ... ml?photo=1

[77W]

Av Herald riporta il recupero del CVR:

"On May 16th the cockpit voice recorder was recovered and taken to Jakarta, where the recorder is being examined and opened. Russia and Indonesia agree that analysis of the data should take place in Indonesia, the necessary tools if necessary will be brought to Indonesia. The search for the flight data recorder is still underway."

[Valerio Ricciardi]

Ma il FDR non ha un radiosegnalatore? O si attiva solo se finisce sott'acqua?

[JT8D]

Suykhoi Civil Aircraft Company ha diramato oggi questo comunicato:

"Today in Jakarta the National Committee for Transport Safety (KNKT) of Indonesia and the Russian side signed the protocol on the results of joint activity in investigation of the SSJ100 #97004 accident.

According to the signed document the preliminary analysis of the CVR data showed the following: indications of the failure of the aircraft’s systems and components were not discovered, the terrain and collision avoidance system T2CAS was functionally operative in flight and provided crew with information on the hazardous ground proximity.

Due to the fact that the flight data recorder (FDR) has not been found works on detailed analysis of the radar information of the air traffic control (ATC) will continue. This is necessary to plot the aircraft’s flight path and synchronize ATC and CVR data.

The document signed by KNKT Chairman Tanang Kurniadi and Deputy Russian Minister for Industry and Trade Yuri Slyusar also noted the need to continue the search for the FDR by the Indonesian side. The Indonesian side will continue the search for the FDR.

“We highly value the professionalism of our Indonesian colleagues and their Russian counterparts that participated in the work of the commission. From our side, SCAC will ensure maximum collaboration in supply of any data necessary to conduct a thorough and comprehensive investigation of the accident” – said Vladimir Prisyazhyuk, SCAC President."

(http://www.sukhoi.superjet100.com/media ... ews/00429/)

Paolo

[JT8D]

Aggiornamenti apparsi oggi su AvHerald:

"On May 24th 2012 Indonesia's Ministry of Transport reported that the bodies of all 45 occupants of the aircraft have been identified, the remains are now being handed over to the relatives. Sukhoi is going to pay out compensation to the victims in accordance with Indonesia's regulations.

On May 24th Russia's Rosaviatsia (Civil Aviation Authority) released a report dated May 22nd stating that a descent from the mountaineous area's minimum safe altitude of 10,000 feet to 6,000 feet had been pre-arranged. The flight was continued at 6,000 feet until the aircraft impacted a slope rising up to 7254 feet MSL. The investigation is ongoing in all directions with a controlled flight into terrain (CFIT) being a likely scenario. Rosaviatsia reported that CFIT accidents typically are the result of one or more of the following factors:

- Execution of flight below safe altitude as result of deliberate action of the crew or loss of situational awareness
- Lack of response by the crew to (GPWS/TAWS) alerts of terrain closure
- Clearance by ATC to descend in mountaineous terrain in absence of accurate position data
- Erroneous altitude indications due to incorrect pressure setting or system malfunction.

Sukhoi reported the aircraft registration RA-97004 (MSN 95004) was piloted by a very experienced crew that also flew the first prototype of the aircraft, the commander had more than 10,000 hours total. The crew did not report any anomaly and did not issue a distress call prior to the aircraft disappearing. The aircraft had already concluded another demonstration flight earlier the day. The accident aircraft had accumulated 800 flight hours in more than 500 cycles, there had been no serious technical problems since its first flight in 2009.

Sukhoi later added, that based on preliminary analysis of the cockpit voice recorder data a paper was signed by both Indonesia's National Transportation Safety Committee and Russia's Interstate Aviation Committee investigation the crash. The paper stated that no system malfunctions were detected prior to impact, the aircraft's Terrain Awareness and Warning System (TAWS) was operating and provided the crew with information about hazardeous ground proximity."
(http://avherald.com/h?article=44f464f7&opt=0)

Paolo

[JT8D]

Aggiornamento pubblicato oggi da AvHerald:

"On May 28th the Ministry of Transport stated that each of the demo flights was scheduled to take 30 minutes flying from Halim Perdanakusuma Airport to Pelabuhan Ratu and back at 10,000 feet. The Ministry also released a time line of the flight stating, that the aircraft took off Halim Perdanakusuma Airport's runway 06 at 14:21L and climbed to 10,000 feet. The aircraft subsequently established on radial 200 of the HLM VOR (located on Halim Perdanakusuma Airport) and was handed off to Soekarno Hatta Airport's air traffic control at 14:24L. At 14:26L the crew requested and was cleared to descend to 6000 feet, at 14:28L the crew requested a right orbit in the training area Atang Sanjaya (about 3nm north of Bogor). At 14:52L ATC contacted Soekarno Hatta Airport after the aircraft was no longer visible on the radar screen, at 14:55L ATC reported to the ATS coordinator because of the loss of the target. An uncertainty phase followed, at 16:05L ATC contacted Search and Rescue, at 16:55L the alert phase (ALERFA) was invoked and at 18:22L distress phase (DESTRESFA) was invoked after the aircraft's fuel would have run out."
(http://avherald.com/h?article=44f464f7&opt=0)

Paolo

[Alien]

Mi stupiscono un po gli interruttori in alto a destra che se non sbaglio sono relativi al FBW. Interruttori simili li ho comprati per 2 dollari su ebay..

Quelli dovrebbero essere gli interruttori FTI per passare da Normal Mode a Direct Mode (tre interruttori, uno per computer). L’aeroplano di serie non prevede che il pilota possa degradare intenzionalmente il modo del FCS, e non dovrebbe avere nulla del genere.

[sigmet]

Ben tornato Alien!

[JT8D]

Ritrovato l'FDR, già consegnato alla commissione di inchiesta:

http://www.md80.it/2012/05/31/incidente ... vato-lfdr/

Paolo

[Alien]

Ben tornato Alien!

Grazie!
Spero proprio che l'incidente sia da imputare al cattivo tempo. Avevo conosciuto il pilota di persona, a Mosca, e mi spiace moltissimo per lui e gli altri.

[sigmet]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... atics.html

[sigmet]

Russia's Sukhoi Superjet-100 crashed in Indonesia because of a whole complex of reasons, including the human factor, investigators said. The specialists studied the information that they could obtain from the flight recorders and came to conclusion that there was a potential customer staying in the cockpit shortly before the aircraft slammed into the mountain.
However, the customer was not interfering into the actions of the crew. The person was only interested in the technical performance of the airplane.
A source close to investigation told RIA Novosti news agency on conditions of anonymity that the Terrain Awareness and Warning System was active during the demonstration flight. The pilots, investigators believe, received visual and audio signals warning of the mountain slope ahead. However, they ignored the signals because they were certain that they were flying above a valley, at a safe altitude. An Indonesian flight control officer approved a descent from 10 to 6 thousand feet. The pilots could not see the mountain on time because of thick clouds.
The crew supposedly received a signal from another onboard signal. The system said that the aircraft was flying low above the ground and prompted the extension of the landing gear. Being at a loss about the relief of the area, the commander decided to deactivate the automatic equipment to descend independently. "It could be possible that the crewmembers were certain until the very last moment that they were flying above a valley," the source said.
The pilots contacted the Indonesian flight control officer to find out whether it was possible to continue the flight as before. However, the officer did not respond. The Indonesian side had problems with either communication or location, which may often happen in mountainous areas.
Officials with Indonesian aviation authorities said that the Russian plane had all documents for demonstration flights in Jakarta. No technical malfunction was reported during the first demonstration flight of the passenger jetliner. The plane was fuelled with high-quality fuel accordingly, investigators said.
Russia's Sukhoi Superjet-100 crashed into the vertical slope of Salak Mount on May 9th. There were 45 people, including eight Russians, on board. The crash left no survivors.

[JT8D]

"On Jun 25th 2012 the NTSC released immediate safety recommendations reporting the crash site is located at a near vertical wall at the eastern side of Mount Salak at coordinates S6.7094 E106.7353 at 6100 feet MSL. Following intensive search for 22 days a number of items were recovered including APU ECU, HF transceiver, HF power amplifier, HF emergency radio, ELT406, ACRA Control, RCP for MPS-31C, CVR, DME Unit, harddisk, Aeroflot FOM, parachute, collection of aeronavigation information, metal parts from fuselage and the FDR. The aircraft was certified by Russia however was not suitable for commercial operation (i.e. transportation of passengers by fare) and was not the property of a commercial operation airline. No copy of a passenger manifest and aircraft documentation could be found, passenger manifest and aircraft documents were carried only on the aircraft. Recommendations to ensure minimum safe altitude during demonstration flights as well as ensure copies of documentation available on the ground were issued to both Indonesia's Directorate of Civil Aviation and Sukhoi."

(http://avherald.com/h?article=44f464f7&opt=0)

Paolo

[77W]

Preliminary report:

"Indonesia's NTSC released their preliminary report reporting the demonstration flight was filed as an IFR flight maintaining 10,000 feet enroute and joining HLM VOR's (located at Jakarta Halim Perdanakusuma Airport) radial 200 for a flight to Pelabuhan Ratu and back. The estimated flight time was 30 minutes, the endurance of the aircraft was 4 hours.

Following departure from Halim Perdanakusuma Airport's runway 06 the aircraft climbed to 10,000 feet and joined radial 200 of HLM VOR. About 2 minutes later, at 07:26Z, the crew requested to descend to 6,000 feet. The ATC replied "6,000 copied", the crew acknowleged "Descend to 6000 feet". At 07:28Z the crew requested a right hand orbit, which was approved by the air traffic controller.

The NTSC reported that the radar display showed the aircraft overhead WI(R)-4 Atang Sanjaya Training Area, located about 17nm southwest of HLM VOR at that time 07:28Z.

At 07:50Z the air traffic controller noticed the aircraft had disappeared from the radar screen and attempted to contact the aircraft during the next 5 minutes. At 07:55Z the air traffic controller informed ATS coordination.

At 08:35Z uncertainty alert was raised, at 08:55Z distress alert was raised and at 11:22Z distress phase was declared.

A search for the aircraft began at 09:00Z, the location of the aircraft however was unclear. No ELT signal was ever received by Indonesian, Australian, Singaporean or Malaysian rescue coordination centers although the aircraft was equipped with an ELT capable to transmit on 406, 121.5 and 243 MHz.

The aircraft was located on May 10th at 01:35Z at S6.71 E106.7447 at an elevation of about 6000 feet at a 85 degrees slope ridge (editorial note: the position identifies the eastern cliff of the valley). All occupants perished in the crash, the aircraft was destroyed. The main parts of the wreckage like engines, landing gear, vertical stabilizers were found at the bottom of the valley about 500 meters below the point of impact. The ELT was found with its antenna detached.

The captain (57, test pilot license, 10,347 hours total, 1,348 hours on type) and the first officer (44, test pilot license, 3,318 hours total, 625 hours on type) were flying the aircraft.

The aircraft had been certified as civil passenger aircraft by experimental aircraft airworthiness certificate no. 95/13-415. According to Russian regulations this meant the aircraft was not designed for commercial operation (transportation of passengers by fare). The aircraft had been equipped with an additional flight test equipment (data acquisition).

The weather forecasts for the accident area predicted haze in the area with a visibility of 5000 meters, scattered to broken cloud at 1700 feet. The Bogor weather office observed haze and visbility of 4000 meters at the accident time with cloud base at 600 meters/2000 feet at 5-6 octas.

The flight data recorder, recovered on May 31st 2012, was found in good quality and its data have been successfully downloaded. The data and its interpretation are to be included in the final report only however.

The cockpit voice recorder recovered on May 15th 2012 was also found in good condition and was downloaded. The transcript/analysis will also be included in the final report."

Fonte: Av Herald - http://avherald.com/h?article=44f464f7/0015&opt=0

[JT8D]

Il preliminary report è scaricabile qui:

http://www.dephub.go.id/knkt/ntsc_aviat ... leased.pdf

Vi sono diverse questioni da analizzare..... perchè è stato autorizzato a volare sotto le minime ?

Paolo

[aetio57]

Vi sono diverse questioni da analizzare..... perchè è stato autorizzato a volare sotto le minime ?

Hai ragione... questioni anche inconcepibili, come quella che hai sottolineato. Le minime sono state adottate proprio per questioni di sicurezza, per evitare gli impatti col suolo sottostante dell'area che si sta sorvolando...
Le minime non andrebbero MAI violate, anche solo per forma mentis, quand'anche ci fosse CAVOK... (qualcuno forse storcerà il naso, ma io la penso così) e quando leggo di incidenti come questo, rimango sgomento, anche pensando ai 45 (quarantacinque!!) a bordo... Assurdo.

[vihai]

Il preliminary report è scaricabile qui:

http://www.dephub.go.id/knkt/ntsc_aviat ... leased.pdf

Vi sono diverse questioni da analizzare..... perchè è stato autorizzato a volare sotto le minime ?

Intendi sotto la MSA?

Non so, io non volo IFR ma se sei in VMC e sei abile a separarti dagli ostacoli penso il problema non sia quello, voglio dire, nessuno ti vieta di cancellare il piano di volo e scorrazzare in VMC tra le montgne... certo faresti prendere qualche spavento alla piccola aviazione generale.

E non credo sia stato un fattore visto che pare fosso proprio quella la loro intenzione: volare a vista consapevoli di essere sotto la MSA.

Piuttosto non credo che lo spazio aereo sotto la MSA fosse controllato quindi il controllore non avrebbe potuto autorizzarli a *uscire* dal loro spazio senza cancellare il piano di volo... ma IMHO sono sottigliezze procedurali non rilevanti nell'incidente.

[vihai]

Hai ragione... questioni anche inconcepibili, come quella che hai sottolineato. Le minime sono state adottate proprio per questioni di sicurezza, per evitare gli impatti col suolo sottostante dell'area che si sta sorvolando...
Le minime non andrebbero MAI violate, anche solo per forma mentis, quand'anche ci fosse CAVOK...

Guarda che volare sotto la MSA in VFR è più la norma che l'eccezione.

[aetio57]

Guarda che volare sotto la MSA in VFR è più la norma che l'eccezione.

... zero killed, ma in VFR v'è l'obbligo di rimanere in costante contatto visivo col terreno. In quel caso non m'è sembrato minimamente che la cosa sia avvenuta... dato che col terreno hanno impattato (purtroppo...)

[vihai]

... zero killed, ma in VFR v'è l'obbligo di rimanere in costante contatto visivo col terreno. In quel caso non m'è sembrato minimamente che la cosa sia avvenuta... dato che col terreno hanno impattato (purtroppo...)

Beh, non sappiamo quale fosse *esattamente* la visibilità in quel momento.

Personalmente dubito che siano entrati volontariamente in IMC in una zona montagnosa sotto la MSA mentre volavano in valle.

Vedo altri scenari molto più plausibili ma senza almeno il contenuto del FDR è inutile speculare al buio.

Ciao,

[aetio57]

...ma senza almeno il contenuto del FDR è inutile speculare al buio.

Ciao,

...pienamente d'accordo.

[mcgyver79]

Rilasciato il final report da parte dell'NTSC: http://www.dephub.go.id/knkt/ntsc_aviat ... elease.pdf

Tra le tante cose si menziona il sistema MSAW, che non avevo mai sentito nominare fino a qualche giorno fa quando su Dmax ho seguito l'ultima puntata di "Indagini ad alta quota", con la ricostruzione del crash del KE801 nel 1997. Non ho ben capito come funzica, se qualcuno riesce a spiegarmelo senza andare oltre i target di quest'area gliene sarei grato... oppure anche in altra area più generica.

Ciaooooo.

[alessandro.capotondi]

Rilasciato il final report da parte dell'NTSC: http://www.dephub.go.id/knkt/ntsc_aviat ... elease.pdf

Tra le tante cose si menziona il sistema MSAW, che non avevo mai sentito nominare fino a qualche giorno fa quando su Dmax ho seguito l'ultima puntata di "Indagini ad alta quota", con la ricostruzione del crash del KE801 nel 1997. Non ho ben capito come funzica, se qualcuno riesce a spiegarmelo senza andare oltre i target di quest'area gliene sarei grato... oppure anche in altra area più generica.

Ciaooooo.

Lascio agli esperti le spiegazioni, però se hai voglia di leggere ho trovato questo documento di Eurocontrol riguardo MSAW http://www.eurocontrol.int/sites/defaul ... system.pdf

[sardinian aviator]

Insomma sarebbe uno strumento ad uso del controllore CTA per essere allertato in caso un aereo sia troppo vicino ad un CFIT. Corretto?

[SaturnV]

Per quanto poco ne possa sapere e' un sistema che attiva un allarme per l'operatore radar quando l'aereo in questione va sotto una minima di settore, questo suppongo sia subordinato all'uso da parte dell'aeromobile del trasponder in modo C.

[SaturnV]

Modo C sarebbe la modalita' di trasmissione dati del transponder che invia al radar anche la propria quota.
Comunque air crash investigation su dmax non si puo' proprio vedere !

[sigmet]

Vi sono diverse questioni da analizzare..... perchè è stato autorizzato a volare sotto le minime ?

Paolo

La responsabilita' della separazione verticale e' sempre del comandante.
Comunque il quadro e' abbastanza chiaro. Distractions, overconfidence, situation awareness....