furto di notizie F35

[**F@b!0**]

ho appena sentito al tg2 di un "furto" di notizie sul F35, l'aereo militare per il quale l'Italia è il secondo finanziatore europeo e terzo del mondo dopo Stati uniti e Inghilterra, qualcuno ha ipotizzato che questo "furto" sia opera dei cinesi (cavolo sono dappertutto questi).
ad essere state rubate sono informazioni circa armamenti, punti deboli e prestazioni dell'aereo, informazioni che permetterebbero alla Cina (?????) di difendersi dagli eventuali attacchi effettuati con F35.
voi che pensate di questa notizia??? puo essere vera??? e se fosse vera, sarà da abbandonare il progetto JSF????
La parola al forum...

[richelieu]

Ecco cosa afferma il "Washington Post" .....

Officials Say Hackers Didn't Steal Critical Data About New Fighter Jet

By Ann Scott Tyson and Dana Hedgpeth
Washington Post Staff Writers
Wednesday, April 22, 2009

The Pentagon and Lockheed Martin, the lead defense contractor for the new F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, suggested yesterday that cyber-attacks had not caused any serious security breaches in the Pentagon's most expensive weapons program.

Still, defense and corporate officials said attacks on the Pentagon as well as the F-35 program are constant, and former defense officials familiar with the program said some of the F-35's less sensitive systems have been infiltrated by cyber-intruders.

"We know we are probed on this every day. We have very aggressive defensive systems. The more sensitive the information, the greater the safeguards are," said Pentagon spokesman Bryan Whitman. He said he was not aware of any sensitive F-35 technology having been compromised by a cyber-attack.

The comments came in response to a Wall Street Journal story Monday reporting that cyber-attackers copied and siphoned off data related to design and electronics systems, "potentially making it easier to defend against the craft."

The F-35 is the Pentagon's most expensive, complex and ambitious aircraft program. According to program estimates, the total investment required in the F-35 exceeds $1 trillion -- more than $300 billion to buy 2,456 aircraft and $760 billion to keep them flying beyond their expected life cycle.

The program has been troubled by cost overruns and delays. Some analysts said cyber-attacks could further delay delivery of the first aircraft.

In a conference call with Wall Street analysts to discuss the company's first-quarter earnings, Lockheed Martin Chief Financial Officer Bruce L. Tanner said, "To our knowledge there's never been any classified information breach." He went on to say, "Like the government, these attacks on our systems are continuous, and we do have stringent measures in place to both detect and stop these attacks."

Troy J. Lahr, a defense industry analyst at Stifel Nicolaus, said the news of any security breach would probably "shake up people in Congress" and lead to a push for more money to fund cybersecurity.

Jim McAleese, who has worked as a consultant to Lockheed and other major defense companies, said it appears that the information the attackers got would not allow crucial insights into the aircraft's software codes, radar or electronic warfare systems.

He said it appears that the spies got information on operations and maintenance of the aircraft, which he described as "materials that have very few details to make the aircraft vulnerable."

"They'll have very little information other than how you maintain the aircraft," he said. "They'd know, for example, at what number of hours do the engines get checked, or the procedures for maintaining the stealth coding," but "they wouldn't have information about key parts," he said.

Former defense officials confirmed that more than a year ago cyber-attackers had penetrated the F-35's logistics system.

"It was not sensitive -- not an area that was very critical," one official said. "Everyone went on an alert status, and most of the programs left vulnerable were fairly minor," he said, adding that the critical areas of the program are kept on an off-line computer system. President Obama is reviewing recommendations from a comprehensive interagency assessment of the government's cybersecurity efforts, seeking to ensure that public- and private-sector efforts are properly funded and coordinated and that the White House is organized to attack the problem.

A recent Pentagon report on China's military power noted that cyber-attacks on the United States had been traced back to the communist nation.

[**F@b!0**]

non l'ho letto proprio tutto perchè non ne avevo voglia, ma in sostanza conferma quello che ho detto io, il progetto F35 ha subito un cyber attacco e i più sospettati sono i cinesi.
Sarà il caso di abbandonare il progetto o si può andare avanti???

[Kandam]

mmm esperienze passate mi porterebbero a dire che ne volano di palle da quelle parti...nel senso che si tende spesso a minimizzare (eufemismo per "alterare la realtà dei fatti")...da quanto si capisce la difesa cibernetica funziona come su un atomo...più ci si avvicina al nucleo più è difficile entrare, quindi i "cinesi" (o chicchessia) sarebbero entrati solo in un virtuale primo strato di dati preossochè inutili...mah...va anche detto che se sono abituati agli attacchi informatici...perchè questo attacco dovrebbe avere tanta rilevanza da finire sul Post se alla fine hanno preso poco o nulla?

mah..

K

[**F@b!0**]

kandam, non sò che dirti, dai telegiornali sembra che sia successo chissà che cosa, ma sappiamo tutti che i tg gonfiano le notizie, ma addirittura gonfiare cosi tanto la notizia e specificare che hanno rubato quei precisi dati quando invece hanno preco per esempio il trittico del JSF e tipo di motore mi sembra un pò esagerato....speriamo che sia come hai detto tu!!!

[richelieu]

Tutto è partito da questo articolo pubblicato da "The Wall Street Journal" ..... che non è proprio l'ultimo arrivato in fatto di attendibilità .....

TECHNOLOGY APRIL 21, 2009
Computer Spies Breach Fighter-Jet Project

By SIOBHAN GORMAN, AUGUST COLE and YOCHI DREAZEN

WASHINGTON -- Computer spies have broken into the Pentagon's $300 billion Joint Strike Fighter project -- the Defense Department's costliest weapons program ever -- according to current and former government officials familiar with the attacks.

Similar incidents have also breached the Air Force's air-traffic-control system in recent months, these people say. In the case of the fighter-jet program, the intruders were able to copy and siphon off several terabytes of data related to design and electronics systems, officials say, potentially making it easier to defend against the craft.

The latest intrusions provide new evidence that a battle is heating up between the U.S. and potential adversaries over the data networks that tie the world together. The revelations follow a recent Wall Street Journal report that computers used to control the U.S. electrical-distribution system, as well as other infrastructure, have also been infiltrated by spies abroad.

View Full Image

US Air Force
HACKING VICTIM: Spies are said to have stolen data on the F-35 Lightning II fighter. Here, the plane undergoes flight testing over Texas.
Attacks like these -- or U.S. awareness of them -- appear to have escalated in the past six months, said one former official briefed on the matter. "There's never been anything like it," this person said, adding that other military and civilian agencies as well as private companies are affected. "It's everything that keeps this country going."

Many details couldn't be learned, including the specific identity of the attackers, and the scope of the damage to the U.S. defense program, either in financial or security terms. In addition, while the spies were able to download sizable amounts of data related to the jet-fighter, they weren't able to access the most sensitive material, which is stored on computers not connected to the Internet.

Former U.S. officials say the attacks appear to have originated in China. However it can be extremely difficult to determine the true origin because it is easy to mask identities online.

A Pentagon report issued last month said that the Chinese military has made "steady progress" in developing online-warfare techniques. China hopes its computer skills can help it compensate for an underdeveloped military, the report said.

The Chinese Embassy said in a statement that China "opposes and forbids all forms of cyber crimes." It called the Pentagon's report "a product of the Cold War mentality" and said the allegations of cyber espionage are "intentionally fabricated to fan up China threat sensations."

Question of the Day
Vote: How big a role will cyberspying have in future geopolitical conflicts?Major role | Minor role | No role

Join the discussion.From the Archive
Electricity Grid in U.S. Penetrated By Spies
04/08/09The U.S. has no single government or military office responsible for cyber security. The Obama administration is likely to soon propose creating a senior White House computer-security post to coordinate policy and a new military command that would take the lead in protecting key computer networks from intrusions, according to senior officials.

The Bush administration planned to spend about $17 billion over several years on a new online-security initiative and the Obama administration has indicated it could expand on that. Spending on this scale would represent a potential windfall for government agencies and private contractors at a time of falling budgets. While specialists broadly agree that the threat is growing, there is debate about how much to spend in defending against attacks.

The Joint Strike Fighter, also known as the F-35 Lightning II, is the costliest and most technically challenging weapons program the Pentagon has ever attempted. The plane, led by Lockheed Martin Corp., relies on 7.5 million lines of computer code, which the Government Accountability Office said is more than triple the amount used in the current top Air Force fighter.

Six current and former officials familiar with the matter confirmed that the fighter program had been repeatedly broken into. The Air Force has launched an investigation.

Pentagon officials declined to comment directly on the Joint Strike Fighter compromises. Pentagon systems "are probed daily," said Air Force Lt. Col. Eric Butterbaugh, a Pentagon spokesman. "We aggressively monitor our networks for intrusions and have appropriate procedures to address these threats." U.S. counterintelligence chief Joel Brenner, speaking earlier this month to a business audience in Austin, Texas, warned that fighter-jet programs have been compromised.

Foreign allies are helping develop the aircraft, which opens up other avenues of attack for spies online. At least one breach appears to have occurred in Turkey and another country that is a U.S. ally, according to people familiar with the matter.

Joint Strike Fighter test aircraft are already flying, and money to build the jet is included in the Pentagon's budget for this year and next.

Computer systems involved with the program appear to have been infiltrated at least as far back as 2007, according to people familiar with the matter. Evidence of penetrations continued to be discovered at least into 2008. The intruders appear to have been interested in data about the design of the plane, its performance statistics and its electronic systems, former officials said.

The intruders compromised the system responsible for diagnosing a plane's maintenance problems during flight, according to officials familiar with the matter. However, the plane's most vital systems -- such as flight controls and sensors -- are physically isolated from the publicly accessible Internet, they said.

The intruders entered through vulnerabilities in the networks of two or three contractors helping to build the high-tech fighter jet, according to people who have been briefed on the matter. Lockheed Martin is the lead contractor on the program, and Northrop Grumman Corp. and BAE Systems PLC also play major roles in its development.

Lockheed Martin and BAE declined to comment. Northrop referred questions to Lockheed.

The spies inserted technology that encrypts the data as it's being stolen; as a result, investigators can't tell exactly what data has been taken. A former Pentagon official said the military carried out a thorough cleanup.

Fighting online attacks like these is particularly difficult because defense contractors may have uneven network security, but the Pentagon is reliant on them to perform sensitive work. In the past year, the Pentagon has stepped up efforts to work with contractors to improve computer security.

Investigators traced the penetrations back with a "high level of certainty" to known Chinese Internet protocol, or IP, addresses and digital fingerprints that had been used for attacks in the past, said a person briefed on the matter.

As for the intrusion into the Air Force's air-traffic control systems, three current and former officials familiar with the incident said it occurred in recent months. It alarmed U.S. national security officials, particularly at the National Security Agency, because the access the spies gained could have allowed them to interfere with the system, said one former official. The danger is that intruders might find weaknesses that could be exploited to confuse or damage U.S. military craft.

Military officials declined to comment on the incident.

In his speech in Austin, Mr. Brenner, the U.S. counterintelligence chief, issued a veiled warning about threats to air traffic in the context of Chinese infiltration of U.S. networks. He spoke of his concerns about the vulnerability of U.S. air traffic control systems to cyber infiltration, adding "our networks are being mapped." He went on to warn of a potential situation where "a fighter pilot can't trust his radar."

Che è stato così commentato da "Aviation Week and Space Technology".....

Report of F-35 Data Theft Spotlights Flaws

Apr 21, 2009
David A. Fulghum & Graham Warwick

Claims that unknown attackers used Chinese Internet hosts as a conduit to break into the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter project to scoop up terabytes of design and electronic systems data are being denied by the Pentagon and Lockheed Martin -- kind of.

"Representation of successful cyber attacks on the F-35 program [are] incorrect," according to a Lockheed Martin official. However, the statement was amended with the caveat that "to our knowledge there has never been any classified information breach [despite] attacks on our systems continually." A Pentagon spokesman says there are "no special concerns." The reactions came in response to a Wall Street Journal article that sourced six current and former officials familiar with the event.

True or not, such breaches are attempted with regularity. And those breakdowns in security, says U.S. Air Force Lt. Gen. Robert Elder, the USAF's network-centric operations chief, may well be traceable to breakdowns in common sense.

"The F-35 has hundreds of suppliers that have to be networked together," Elder says. "So you have to build a way to share information, but that's when you run a risk. The fact is that anytime you prepare an e-mail you ought to think that someone is going to read it that you don't want to."

U.S. officials have often described China's IT environment as the "Wild West," where anyone can do almost anything without worry of official interference. Because of the difficulty of tracing intrusions across international countries, hackers, spies and criminals from Eastern Europe and Russia regularly use China as a conduit for their activities.

While the attack and intrusion threat is real and growing, the actual danger is far less certain because attackers work in the same digital wilderness as the defenders.

"There is a huge focus on this in terms of data loss and data gain," says Elder, commander of 8th Air Force with responsibility for strategic deterrence and global strike. "The reality is that the big concern we should have...is an adversary that manipulates the data. Unless you have some [safeguards] in place, you may not know it has happened."

Moreover, even when data is stolen, it may not be what was targeted or it may be of no use because it is encrypted.

"It's one thing for people to get inside your system," Elder says. "It's another for them to do something with it. For example, if you're using [Microsoft] Windows, there are all sorts of encryption capabilities. Also you can cut yourself off from the network except when you want to be on. [Intruders] typically play with your networks in [your] off-hours. So when you're not at home, you lock the house. We need to start thinking the same way about cyber."

Elder also contends that U.S. Internet users, even those in the military, have been naýýve about protection and security.

"We as a nation are content to put a wall around the network to protect us," he says. "We don't deal with the fact that there might already be someone inside the wall that is a threat to us."

Another part of the solution is to train a much larger cyber warfare force. That particular effort has captured the interest of Defense Secretary Robert Gates.

Cyber warfare is "going to be one of the significant new realms of conflict," Gates told students at the Air War College at Maxwell AFB, Ala. But, he warns, "We are desperately short of people who have capabilities in this area in all the services."

Gates said that "I'm looking at establishing a sub-unified command [within] Stracom for cyber that would encompass [the National Security Agency] and various other capabilities." He plans to "significantly increase the throughput of training of experts in cyber. We graduate about 80 students a year from our cyber schools right now. We're going to quadruple that by Fiscal 2011. The service chiefs have basically been told that filling all the slots in the cyber school is their first priority."

[Hartmann]

Sovente ci troviamo qui a "sgamare" le panzane scritte dai giornalisti in argomento aeronauitico. Siccome posso dirmi competente in materia di sicurezza informatica mi pare che anche in questo caso qualcosa di non preciso ci sia.

Saluti
H

[**F@b!0**]

evviva i giornalli affidabili....

[md95]

A questo punto del progetto penso che ben pochi sappiano quali siano i punti deboli dell'F35, per cui c'e' ben poco da rubare. Le prove operative saranno effettuate fra qualche anno, ora sono concentrati sulle prove di progetto. Che i Cinesi ciberneticamente attacchino i vari nodi di sicurezza e' abbastanza normale (penso lo facciano tutti contro tutti). Lo spionaggio non e' finito con la guerra fredda.