COMAC C919

[MiloR]

E di questo qua ne parliamo?
Secondo voi effettivamente potrà contendere fette di mercato con 737 e 320family?

[i-daxi]

Non mi dispiace, ma non credo, anche se magari rispetto ai suoi concorrenti occidentali, Superjet compreso forse ha costi più contenuti.

[i-daxi]

http://www.makli.com/c919-006438/

http://blog.hiddenharmonies.org/2010/05 ... s-duopoly/

[330]

http://www.aviationweek.com/Article.asp ... 594323.xml

Viewpoint: Chinese Have Wrong Experience For C919
By Stanley Chao

July 06, 2013
Credit: COMAC
I am sometimes amazed by all the optimism of the dozens of Western aerospace executives shuttling in and out of the Comac (Commercial Aircraft Corporation of China) headquarters in Shanghai. Most have not made a dime yet on the business, but they continue to send dozens of engineers to China, invest millions to form joint ventures with Chinese aerospace companies, and diligently educate the Chinese on the basics of commercial aircraft-building, hoping one day that these costly efforts will turn into big money. Unfortunately, I do not share the same sentiment.

I see little chance that Comac will get its mid-range commercial aircraft, the C919 , off the ground. My skepticism comes from Comac’s methods in designing and building the C919 . First, it is using engineers, mid-level managers and executives who have virtually no commercial aircraft experience. Second, it is outsourcing almost everything: parts, systems, subsystems and testing.

Comac’s engineers are very sharp. Some have aerospace experience building and designing jet fighters. Others have spent years in aerospace universities and government testing labs. I do not question their education, prowess or fortitude to want to make a commercial aircraft. They are very serious in their work and want to make their country proud. I do, however, question their experience in the designing, manufacturing and testing of commercial aircraft, a different animal than the fighter jet. They did not need to consider such issues as maintenance, repair and overhaul efficiencies, component and material costs, cargo and passenger loads and total cost of ownership. A whole new set of commercial-related parameters comes into play now that China wants to compete with Boeing and Airbus.

In addition, the task of properly certificating a secondary component supplier under FAA guidelines is unknown to Comac, and it has dozens of Chinese suppliers to audit. It just cannot be done in a timely manner, or at least by the new target date of 2015 for the maiden flight. Up to mid-2012, Comac engineers were still asking basic questions: Can you help us design a test protocol for this system? How do Boeing or Airbus do this, what documents do we need for the FAA to approve this system ? It was shocking since Comac was only two years away from the originally scheduled first flight in 2014.

What is more disturbing is that Comac engineers and managers are not interested in understanding the engineering issues and problems. Rather, they only want the answers. Because of pressure from the top, they will outsource the answers and solutions from Western companies and simply implement them without understanding the “whys.” Meeting deadlines has taken precedence over good, solid engineering work.

There is nothing wrong with outsourcing. Boeing has been at it for close to 100 years, during which the company has made and learned from mistakes. Comac, on the other hand, was founded in 2008 with new employees, new management and new facilities. They want to do in eight years what took Boeing a century. You cannot develop the talent, expertise , experience and knowledge base, and bring together hundreds of suppliers to make a commercial aircraft without the potential for major delays or even complete failure. Experience matters in the aerospace business and the core competencies must be built from within.

I am not a Comac-hater nor do I have any vendetta against China. My comments would apply to any new company declaring it was going to manufacture a 737-like aircraft from scratch in just under eight years. My aviation colleagues tell me I am wrong. The Chinese outsource all the time and can shrink decades of technological development into a few short years. After all, they bought, stole or borrowed (in the form of joint ventures) technologies to build high-speed rail trains, super computers, automobiles and telecommunications equipment. So why not commercial aircraft ?

I would agree if Comac were joining forces with Boeing or Airbus to make airplanes in China. In other industries, the Chinese learned first-hand from the actual OEMs: Volkswagen for automobiles, Cisco for telecommunications and Bombardier for high-speed rail. Through joint ventures they trained, learned and copied from the best. But Comac is not receiving the same treatment from Boeing or Airbus, and is on an island tinkering and thinking by itself.

China has come a long way in just 20 years. It is in the midst of an industrial revolution and has risen to become the second largest economy in the world. Within two decades it will be the largest. But given Comac ‘s lack of experience in commercial aircraft designing, manufacturing, outsourcing and certification along with unreasonable deadlines, and an antiquated Communist-style management, I don’t think I’ll live long enough to one day step onto a C919 at Beijing Capital International Airport on its way to Chengdu or Shanghai.

Chao is managing director of All In Consulting, based in Los Angeles, and the author of Selling to China: A Guide to Doing Business in China for Small- and Medium-Sized Companies.

This Viewpoint ran in the July 8 edition of Aviation Week & Space Technology.

[Valerio Ricciardi]

Notare in quest'ultima simulazione sopra i finestrini quadrati a spigoli vivi, come i primi Comet prima dei disastri dell'Elba etc... il grafico non aveva una grande tradizione aeronautica... evabbé.
Ma chi ha visto il disegno e lo ha approvato... proprio nulla ne sapeva?

[330]

Iniziati i test statici, primo volo previsto ora alla fine del 2015:

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articl ... ig-394467/

[Markus86]

Pensate che ha qualche possibilità? Sento in giro che quando arriverà sul mercato sarà già vecchio rispetto a Boeing e Airbus....

[MatteF88]

Presentato il 919 http://www.repubblica.it/economia/2015/ ... 126443452/

[Valerio Ricciardi]

Anche qui.

http://notizie.tiscali.it/videonews/266860/Esteri/

[SuperMau]

calma "presentato"... questo qui e' un guscio vuoto...come il 787 quando e' stato presentato.

Tra un'annetto, finito completato e a motori accesi, ne riparliamo...

[JT8D]

Oggi CFM International ha comunicato che il LEAP-1C Intergated Propulsion System, che equipaggerà il COMAC C919, ha ricevuto la certificazione di EASA e FAA:

http://www.md80.it/2016/12/21/il-cfm-le ... asa-e-faa/

Paolo

[Challenger3]

Oggi il primo esemplare di C919 ha effettuato il primo volo di prova all'aeroporto di Shanghai-Pudong.
Posto qualche foto dell'evento, ringrazio il mio amico Michael per le info sugli orari e luoghi (non avevo mai spottato a Pudong prima d'ora).
Da notare che in occasione del volo di prova l'intero aeroporto e' stato chiuso per alcune ore, gli unici voli ammessi sono stati alcuni atterraggi internazionali, tutti gli altri sono stati ritardati anche di molte ore.

Arrivo allo spotting-point a est della pista 34R (quella su cui e' previsto il volo) dopo circa 10km in bicicletta su strade disastrate. E' gia' pieno di gente, la maggior parte sono dipendenti della Comac che non hanno potuto assistere all'evento dall'interno:




Non mancano fotografi e stampa:


Data la mancanza di spazio sulle collinette la gente sfrutta i tetti di auto, furgoni e camion come piattaforme (per la gioia dei carrozzieri!)






Parte il chase plane, un Embraer Legacy di China Eastern che seguira' il C919 per tutto il volo:


Inizia il rullaggio dalla zona dove c'e' l'hangar con la linea di assemblaggio:


E finalmente il primo C919 decolla tra gli applausi della folla:




Il volo dura poco piu' di un'ora, flap e carrelli per questa volta non vengono retratti, la velocita' si mantiene sui 180-180kts per tutto il volo sopra la regione del Jiangsu-Qidong, a nord di Shanghai.
Atterraggio:

[cabronte]

Grazie per aver postato le foto dell' evento!
Comunque sono ancora molto scettico su questo progetto (almeno a breve termine)

[SuperMau]

ottimo report Challenger!
Mica una cosa da poco assistere a un first flight dal vivo.
SEMBRA carino, anche se e' una copia mischiata di tutto un po' (ala 787, muso a350, cono di coda).....
Vediamo come va, se va, e se con si inchioda da qualche parte....

Un Saluto
M.

[JT8D]

Gran bel report, grazie !! Pur se un po' scettico, sono curioso anch'io di vedere come andrà avanti lo sviluppo, come si comporterà nei test e come andrà questa macchina.

Paolo

[JT8D]

Parlando di COMAC e del progetto di velivolo a lungo raggio CR929, oggi Leonardo ha comunicato di aver sottoscritto un Memorandum of Understanding con il gruppo cinese Kangde Investment, nell’ambito del programma Comac CR929. Il programma CR929 è stato lanciato da COMAC, insieme all’azienda russa UAC, nel 2017 con l’obiettivo di sviluppare un velivolo a lungo raggio e fusoliera larga.

https://www.md80.it/2018/10/26/leonardo ... mac-cr929/

Paolo

[JT8D]

Il C919 ha completato domenica scorsa il suo primo volo commerciale, da Shanghai a Pechino, operato da China Eastern:

https://www.md80.it/2023/05/29/primo-vo ... omac-c919/

Paolo